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Canadian M4A3E8 Shermans in Korea part II
Brad-M
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 02:20 PM UTC
Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 06:02 PM BST
Gents,

While I wait for Andy to release his wonderful Leo 2A6 conversion set, I have decided to commence my Sherman used by our Armoured Corp in Korea. I picked up the Dragon kit 6183 which is the Thunderbolt VII kit and have observed it has the wrong track that I need for my project. Not knowing the names of these tracks, I need the large chevron that looks split in the middle vice the whole large chevron cleated track in the kit. Does anyone know where I can find the correct track required? I wish I knew which kit had the right track, but oh well, if I can find a seperate set of tracks, no problem. I hope I haven't confused you all.

Please help.

Thanks

Brad
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 02:56 PM UTC
T80 tracks.....AFV Club makes a individual link set.

If you need info about the Strathcona or RCD M4A3E8s in Korea just shout it out.
junglejim
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 02:58 PM UTC
AFV Club has what you need Brad. T80 steel chevron: http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=AC35032

Jim
Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 03:21 PM UTC
Thanks Gents, I started a search and found this out, so thanks. Good old Sherman tanks and the myriad of different track types.

Jason, I picked up the RCAC book from the library., and there isn't much info on the Strats or the RCD, so any info would be very appreciated. Things like stowage items like ammo boxes etc would be helpful.

Thanks
Brad
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:02 PM UTC
Stowage varied depending on the mission.....whether they were conducting offences missions or static in fire bases....different Squadron also had the tanks configured and stowed to their likings.

Take a good read of the narrative portion of the Korea deployments in the book and if you can narrow it down to a time period and Squadron I should be able to help you out with details......this is where the fun part of you doing the historical research on your project kicks in.
Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:33 PM UTC
Thanks Jason, I'll do just that.

Brad
junglejim
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 04:36 PM UTC
Here's the AFV Club tracks on the AFV Club HVSS suspension. Tamiya hull, CMD turret, Eduard fenders, Archer markings and Ultracast figures. Did this one several years ago, before the (good) Dragon 76mm kits came out.
A tip with the AFV Club track - use a small amount of Microscale Liqui-tape to keep the end connectors on. They will remain flexible and stay on. Also, ream the guide teeth out (where they connect to the track piece) with a drill bit so they fit on the links easier.




Good luck with your project!

Jim

Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:19 PM UTC
Hey Jim,

That is one sweet build. Was that a 76mm M4A3? Not sure I can get there with the kit that I have. There is a nice pic of what I would like to build on page 351 of the RCAC book I got from the library. I am sorry, but I don't know very much about Shermans, or armour in general.

For Jason, Now that I have read the Korean portion of the book, I would like to build an M4A3E8 from "C" Squadron of the Strathcona's during operation Minden. If there is info about that time frame, that would be very appreciated.

TIA
Brad
junglejim
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:37 PM UTC
Yep, M4A3 76mm HVSS, just like 'Cassino' in the pic. I think that kit is correct, no? (mine's way under the stairs in a box - can't double check too quick

Jim
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:37 PM UTC
Let me do some digging around.
Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:48 PM UTC
Hi Jim,

Thanks, is there a diference between that tank and the M4A3E8? I know that the E8 has an additional plate in front of the transmission cover, but is that it? What about the hatches on top of the turret, any diffs there? Again, I am a novice...

Cheers
Brad


Quoted Text

Yep, M4A3 76mm HVSS, just like 'Cassino' in the pic. I think that kit is correct, no? (mine's way under the stairs in a box - can't double check too quick

Jim

Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:58 PM UTC
I think I just answered my own question, in that the M4A3 (76mm) is the same as the E8, (easy eight) but with added armour, and I can build "Casino" with the kit I have, but get the right tracks and leave the armour off. I think I have it, except I am unsure as to what hatches/turret should be used, as the kit I have has two turrets.

Brad
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 06:00 PM UTC
M4A3E8 & M4A3 76mm HVSS ......same tank.
Brad-M
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Posted: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 06:12 PM UTC
Thanks, and I think I know which turrent/hatch config too. The pic of Casino in the book looks like the oval loaders hatch.

Brad


Quoted Text

M4A3E8 & M4A3 76mm HVSS ......same tank.

LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 02:04 AM UTC
The oval loader's hatch was the most common but I have seen images of the Canadian M4A3E8s in Korea with the split loader's hatch as well.
210cav
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 03:12 AM UTC
Jim-- really nice model. What base coat did you apply to her?
thanks
DJ
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 10:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know that the E8 has an additional plate in front of the transmission cover,


Brad,

What do you mean by this? There is no extra armour plate in front of the tranny cover on the E8, or any specific Sherman version, actually. What are you referring to?

Just for your information, the "E8" refers to the experimental modification to any Sherman to add the HVSS suspension. Yuo can have M4A1E8s, M4A2E8s as well as M4A3E8s. I don't thinkt here were ever any M4E8s or M4A4E8s made. During WW II it was apparently called many things, but the official name never, apparently, actually referred to the E8 or HVSS. Post war (and more recently with AFV buffs) the production versions of the Sherman with a late 47 deg hull and mounting a 76mm gun tend to go by the designation M4 (A-whatever) 76 (w) HVSS. But the wartime paperwork didn't use those terms. In fact the wartime designations weren't terribly discriminatory in how vehicles were described, so it can be very hard to figure out what the original documents are telling you.

Like they used to say, "Can't tell the players without a program..."

Paul
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 01:35 PM UTC
I think he was refering to the Dragon kit......"Thunderbolt" had the additional armour plate added to the glacis plate and transmission cover........a field modification.
mgeorge
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 02:20 PM UTC
Hello everyone. M4 HVSS did exist. I have seen a picture of one in, I believe, the PTO. Never say never with Shermans. Did the Canadians not use M4A2 76 HVSS in Korea? I don't think this would be a problem to do with the Thunderbolt VII kit, as it has the engine deck included. I think just the rear hull plate is a different configeration. Later, Matt.
Brad-M
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 02:38 PM UTC
Hi Paul,

I was referring to exactly what Jason has said below your post. Sorry if I seem to be an amature in the discussion of the Sherman tank, but as my profile says, I normally build airplanes. I found out today that the E8 or Easy Eight refers to the HVVS, I hope I am correct in this.

I realise that most of you are pro's WRT armour here, so maybe you could cut me some slack.

Thanks,

Brad


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I know that the E8 has an additional plate in front of the transmission cover,


Brad,

What do you mean by this? There is no extra armour plate in front of the tranny cover on the E8, or any specific Sherman version, actually. What are you referring to?

Just for your information, the "E8" refers to the experimental modification to any Sherman to add the HVSS suspension. Yuo can have M4A1E8s, M4A2E8s as well as M4A3E8s. I don't thinkt here were ever any M4E8s or M4A4E8s made. During WW II it was apparently called many things, but the official name never, apparently, actually referred to the E8 or HVSS. Post war (and more recently with AFV buffs) the production versions of the Sherman with a late 47 deg hull and mounting a 76mm gun tend to go by the designation M4 (A-whatever) 76 (w) HVSS. But the wartime paperwork didn't use those terms. In fact the wartime designations weren't terribly discriminatory in how vehicles were described, so it can be very hard to figure out what the original documents are telling you.

Like they used to say, "Can't tell the players without a program..."

Paul

Recce_Guy
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 02:44 PM UTC
We only used the M4A3E8's in Korea. We picked them up from the Americans when we go there from thier War Stocks in Japan.

In Canada we had the M4A2E8's. They never saw combat service with the Canadians. We got them from main land USA. They were intended to be a part of the lend lease program for the USSR. It was one of the last shipments to go and it was stopped just before it left due to the degrading political situation. When we first got them, they still had Russian tags and writing on the inside.

As for the engine deck. I know that the Thunderbolt kit comes with both engine decks, but does it have the corret angle for the diesel engines?

Cam
Brad-M
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 03:01 PM UTC
Wasn't the E8's a gasoline ran tank, and the M4A2E8's the diesel ?

Brad



Quoted Text

We only used the M4A3E8's in Korea. We picked them up from the Americans when we go there from thier War Stocks in Japan.

In Canada we had the M4A2E8's. They never saw combat service with the Canadians. We got them from main land USA. They were intended to be a part of the lend lease program for the USSR. It was one of the last shipments to go and it was stopped just before it left due to the degrading political situation. When we first got them, they still had Russian tags and writing on the inside.

As for the engine deck. I know that the Thunderbolt kit comes with both engine decks, but does it have the corret angle for the diesel engines?

Cam

Recce_Guy
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 04:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wasn't the E8's a gasoline ran tank, and the M4A2E8's the diesel ?

Brad



The M4A2's were diesel and the M4A3's were gasoline. The E8 designation is for the HVSS suspension.

Cam
junglejim
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 04:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jim-- really nice model. What base coat did you apply to her?
thanks
DJ



Thanks DJ, it's been a while, but I believe it was Tamiya OD with a touch of dark yellow or desert yellow to lighten it up a bit, a la Steve Zaloga.

Jim
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 04:43 PM UTC
By George.......I think you guys have finally gotten it......haha.

Brad,

In regards to your question about C Sqn, LdSH(RC) and Operation Minden....the tanks were not very weathered by September 1951....they had not seen very much action on the limited fighting patrols they supported during the summer months.

OP Minden was an offensive mission so the tanks were not carrying large amounts of ammo boxes or ammunition tubes that could be seen later with other Squadrons when the tanks were dug in on hill tops. I would make an educated statement in saying that all the ammunition was stowed inside the tank....maybe a spare box of .50 Cal would have been carried on the turret.

Most of the kit and crew gear was secured to the back deck sometimes under a large bivi tarp. Kit like oil containers, rations, and water would have been the priority items to be carried on the back deck. Webbing was hung on the turret rear for easy access for the turret crew if they had to dismount....this was likely limited to the loader's and commander's webbing as the other crew members would have stowed it in the tank.

As seen in the image of "Casino".....the spare tracks sections could be mounted or not mounted and ranged from 5 to 8 track links in length. The ammunition container on the front of "Casino" is not carrying ammo.....it was probably added to give some extra stowage for tools or even tinned rations.

If you want the names of the C Sqn tanks just let me know if you are looking for options when finishing.