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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, January 18, 2020 - 06:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
Once again I'm just speechless.

I would love to attend a series of seminars by HG on how to accomplish just the basic detailing he does including absolutely perfect rescribing.

Joel



As you know, Joel, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'm proud of my work on the interior, but I believe the "diamond in the rough" analogy gets it right. How could I not be happy with the way H.G.'s work blends in with and enhances mine?
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 03:06 AM UTC
Brian,
Your interior detailing was and still is amazing in not only the level but complexity to help recreate reality. Between the two of you the Luscious Lady will be a display piece for years to come. Maybe you should contact the LI museum we met at over the summer as they have a fantastic model display throughout the hanger. They'd surely do the display justice, and I could visit her whenever I wanted to.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Thursday, January 23, 2020 - 01:41 PM UTC
CORRECTING THE RADIO ROOM ROOF

H.G. is doing other things, but for the present, I want to concentrate on his remarkable work correcting dimensional flaws in the radio room roof openings.

Let's start with this: the roof openings filled in with some kind of foam to prevent spray into the interior.



Here are the same locations with the foam pulled out.



Man, what a mess. Look at the jagged edges to the window frame all around and the jagged rear of the radio room hatch. I'm not sure how I would've corrected these irregularities if I was doing this, but it is most instructive to see how H.G. is tackling them.

On the window frame he is utilizing something called, for want of a better word, "black goo." Here you can see how poorly the clear glass piece fits into the frame without repair.



And here is what the framework looks like with the initial application of the black goo.



H.G. Describes putting it in the framework this way.


Quoted Text

Next is the black filler that was put on then let set for a few minutes. To prevent it from totally dripping I have to flip it over and then over again. You might say I had this bird on a spit. * * * Obviously more will be added and then it can be reshaped to fit the window dimensions.




And here we see it carefully worked until a frame starts to appear that will match the clear part perfectly.



Damn, that's impressive!

Before leaving this area, H.G. also undertakes to mend the separated curved interior structural member below the window, see above, using this



How?

Watch.





It's not finished but you can see where this is going.

Now on to the main hatch opening, where close scrutiny shows that the interior dimensions are not symmetrical, at least now.




However, here is the "after" shot.



Check out how perfectly rounded the corners at the hatch rear are now!



Wow! And I know there are further refinements to come!
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 24, 2020 - 08:14 AM UTC
Brian,
Simply amazing. HG's consistency of excellence only makes what he can do, even more amazing.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 - 03:22 PM UTC
MORE FUSELAGE REPAIRS

H.G.'s work on the fuselage continues, a combination IMO of artistry and tedium as he takes the fuselage between the radio room and the pilots' compartment down to bare metal plastic, uses various fillers to get rid of my imperfect panel lines, scribes some of his own, and then re-primes for scribing and detailing.

When I think of my hours of work on this area way back when combined with his work now, I wonder if this just might be the most OCD'd, overworked model in history. Myth of Sisyphus stuff, though I am sure I am overthinking this and that H.G. would disagree!

Anyway, check this out.



Eeek, a crack!



But I am mailing him a replacement part.

Phenomenal stripping of the center fuselage







with some brass around the cockpit roof windows



that he's not entirely happy with so is modifying the roof to make the brass more flush with its surroundings.



Un-freaking-believable. I would not even have thought of it!

Note the tapes running aft to make straight lines for accurate panel lines.











and the careful measurements providing additional benchmarks for accurate scribing.


Finally, there's this application of filler to correct my "off the mark" lines.





Jeeze!



How is something like this going to clean up? His comment is:


Quoted Text

That was a lot of sanding and I know it looks awful but it's a major step closer to moving to the next area. Please note that most of the lines and white scratches you see are actually filled. Once primed again with Mr. Surfacer, it will hide all that.



We both worry about the windows. How will they clean up?

An even bigger worry is the fit and transparency of the pilots' compartment windows.




For me, these areas are particularly cringeworthy, despite all the effort I put into this all-important area.

I simply have to leave it in H.G.'s capable hands.

There are similar issues with the nose windows, but one challenge at a time!
amoz02t
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 01:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

MORE FUSELAGE REPAIRS
Both of us worry about the windows.

How is something like this going to clean up?
An even bigger worry is the fit and transparency of the pilots' compartment windows.
There are similar issues with the nose windows, but one challenge at a time!



He is showing amazing good work and art! Most impressive and fun to see. Thank you again for sharing the methods seen here.

As many followers, I am most interested in how to deal with restoring the clear parts. Myself, I am only familiar with the micro sanding, buffing, Pledge / Future coating approach. Please share ways that leave less distortion while getting a crystal clear part? Seems like thickness variation as well as clarity need to be addressed? Excited to learn more! I have the popcorn out. Many thanks- Stuart
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 02:14 AM UTC
Glad you're enjoying it. What you describe is the extent of my "art" too. He's giving a lot of thought to some more creative solutions, including how to bring the nose windows flush with the exterior.
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 05:37 PM UTC
PORT WING WHEEL WELL

There were some parts that I had to ship H.G. to assist in finishing the fuselage--extra clear parts mostly but there were some others. While waiting for these he started on the port wing wheel well, which is not yet complete but has some good work-in-progress pictures below.

As a reminder, this wheel well differs from the stbd. one in having these thin heating pipes with white lagging that run from a nest of heating pipes around the port engine exhaust on the nacelle.




Here's a start to the wheel well rear bulkhead.



These small bits





I understand will go into the scratch-build of the gearbox and elbow on the rear bulkhead that is part of the retraction mechanism for the landing gear. See the arrow in the picture below.



Below is a scratch-built cable pully mechanism for the lines (I believe) that run midway across the rear wheel well bulkhead.



I must say it made me feel a bit "nostalgic" about the pulley box I built in the tunnel between the nose and the cockpit just above the crawl space door leading to the nose compartment.

Perhaps H.G. will take a picture of that for me to insert below.

Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 06:12 PM UTC
PORT WHEEL WELL CON'T.

I had to break this into a second post tonight.

I'll close with some pictures showing the overall progress H.G. has made on the port wheel well as of this evening.










That brass piece is just great!

Finally, H.G. informs me that the warp in the port lower wing



creates wheel well problems I would never have dreamed of with my more primitive "just glue it together" approach.


Quoted Text

To give you an idea how tedious it is to make the well I have make a deliberate gap in the walls and back wall so when I squeeze the lower wing corner up it will move the well parts together. Very time consuming having to test fit the parts countless times.



O.M.G. I never even considered something like this.
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 - 02:04 AM UTC
Brian,
The Alien has reached new levels of assembly when needing to introduce a gap in the wing sections so that the wheel well details can be fit together perfectly.

Honestly, I really can't understand how this process works or is needed. Why can't the parts be positioned and glued into place with the wing halves still apart?

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 - 02:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
The Alien has reached new levels of assembly when needing to introduce a gap in the wing sections so that the wheel well details can be fit together perfectly.

Honestly, I really can't understand how this process works or is needed. Why can't the parts be positioned and glued into place with the wing halves still apart?

Joel



I don't understand fully either, except that some wheel well parts on the bottom are fixed so we're not dealing with a module that can be glued into the top wing/nacelle. I'm not arguing with success, however.
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 - 03:25 AM UTC
Brian,
The complexity of this build really has me curious to see a few of HG's own builds.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 04:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The complexity of this build really has me curious to see a few of HG's own builds.



Joel:

Here's one right here on Aeroscale.

AVENGER 93 Loyce Deen 353

You'll see my name mentioned in it on some of the research.

Brian
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 04:35 PM UTC
MOAR LEFT-WING WHEEL WELL

Well, it's been a month to the day since my last post. A few things have happened since then such as the largest pandemic in living memory. (I don't think anyone is around still from the one in 1918.) I am working out of my house, which was part of my normal schedule anyway, but most businesses are shut down here in New Jersey by Executive Order of the Governor.

This disease is nothing to take lightly. One of my colleagues has been infected with it and is in an ICU with an "induced coma." is a real possibility. We pray not, of course. And I hardly need to mention how it has ravaged Europe, especially poor Italy.

Anyway, the month's silence doesn't mean H.G. hasn't been busy. He's nearly finished the left-wing wheel well. Rather than talk on and on about that, I'll let these pictures tell the story.

You will recall that this well has all that white-lagged piping for the cockpit heating system.



Here are some of H.G.'s experiments to replicate it.



As usual, the detail work is amazing.




Check out these brackets.





And, there is the systematic scratch-building of the interior, with all its myriad details.











It gets more mind-boggling as the parts start to come together.









More soon. I am beyond words not only at the execution but also at the planning behind it!
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2020 - 01:08 PM UTC
TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL

H.G. is nearing completion of the basic innards of the left-wing wheel well, and it shows.

These photos reveal his remarkable progress on the more complex left wheel well, with the intricate piping and extra components for the cockpit heating system.




Note the black oblong object in the overhead.



Note the oil tank piping at the bottom of the tank.




Note the lagged white pipe on the forward bulkhead.




Note the white piping fore and aft. And no sweat on the "gunk" between the ribs. It will disappear with weathering and the limitations of the human eye (vs these damn digital cameras).




Here's another shot of the same area.



I love the lagged pipe and bare metal sections of this one!




Here's the real thing for comparison's sake. Damn!






These pictures show the exceptional care that went into the fabrication of the detail pieces before they went in.

‘Strodinary! Is too a word, as Dr. Google shows.
chukw1
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2020 - 09:31 AM UTC
So good! Compliments to the chefs!
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2020 - 10:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So good! Compliments to the chefs!



You can see why I made the switch. H.G. has been fantastic for this cherished project.

And I am really glad to see you back.

I'm screwing around with diecasts and doing various other projects, but I will be starting the Special Hobby AF-2 Guardian before too long.
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 01:23 AM UTC
OH my!!

What a treat to see Chuck posting. I for one have missed you and your girls.

Are you back modeling these days, as you kind of just fell off the edge of the Earth? Even though I'm a car guy these days, I still follow my friends in Aeroscale.

Joel
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 03:49 AM UTC
Thanks, Brian! Joel, I hope to have a post up today! This one, however, broke the bank on disc usage on my website. I a bit I'll be able to call my web host and up my storage- that should do it.
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2020 - 07:33 AM UTC
Chuck,
I'm looking forward to seeing your current work. Hope that the girls are still with you.

Joel
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 03:50 AM UTC
Thanks, Joel- get your hit over the Modern sub-forum- cheers!We now return to the best B-17 thread ever!
GastonMarty
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Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 08:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks. It still sort of drives me nuts that one of the most iconic aircraft of WWII is so poorly represented in 1/48th scale, even after decades of the hobby "maturing" into stuff like the recent XUNTONG IL-4 kit in quarter inch and the Zveda Su-2. Even if we go back a few years to the Trumpeter Wellington kits and further still to the Tamiya Lancaster we are still light years ahead of the Revell-Monogram B-17F and G kits.






I understand your sentiment regarding the lack of quadrimotors in recent decades, absurd, but I simply have to disagree with your assesment of the monogram B-17g. It is a lucky exception compared to the crap almost all the other bombers are, and I have seen excellent builds with little effort thanks to the squadron canopy. Without the squadron clear parts there would be a valid complaint still, but they are widely available and cheap.

The accuracy of the monogram b-17 outlines is extraordinary for the era, right down to the correct symmetrical wing airfoil so typical of the 1930s: the grossness of the more recent b17s in all scales is a a tribute to monogram excellence.

The Tamiya lancaster has no fuselage bottom flare and is wrong in an infinite number of ways. Monograms own b-29 and b-24s are unspeakable monstrosities as well.

The Wellington is a better trumpeter effort but unlike the old b-17 its canopy is way too shallow and wrong.

The xuton Il-4 is excellent but that is a rare exception, and the engraving is heavy enough to make monogram raised lines look good. The only land-based big WwII kit to be better than the mono B-17 is the ju-52 and the recent German bombers, and even for the latter they have more problems than the b-17....

The numerous AM sets for making the G really makes the later b-17s better served than just about any other large WWII type... G
GazzaS
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Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 10:49 AM UTC
The detail work is staggering!
Redhand
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Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2020 - 04:05 PM UTC
GETTING NEAR THE END (OF THE LEFT WING WHEEL WELL!)

It's been a while, but H.G. has persevered despite the pandemic. Here are some shots of the nearly-completed wheel well with all that insulated heating system piping.

Let's start with a prominent view of the real thing.



Compare that to this:





And on the other side:





And now "the big reveal," sort of.



Yes, we really are getting to the point where the left wing is being set up to be glued together!

And here's "the shape of things to come."



On a personal note, I'm into week 4 of a lockdown here in New Jersey. I have enough to keep me busy legally, but my schedule has lightened enough that I will soon have a post showing a major rebuild and repaint of a "Carousel 1" diecast Curtiss AVG "Hawk" in my "The Die Is Cast" thread.

More on topic, I am saddened to report that Art, my NC friend and helper on so much of the fuselage build, is gravely ill. Not with the virus, but something worse. His illness is such that he can't use his hands! I can think of no crueler curse for a lifetime modeler who can't even pursue the hobby while he can't work!

Anyway, Art is responsible for kindling my interest in early 1950s aircraft and as soon as the P-40 is finished, I'm going to start a dual build of these two monsters to help him pass the time.





To get a sense of just how huge that airframe is, check out this one in the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, Florida.




Photo Credit - By Greg Goebel - https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7346269050, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=21224063

I saw the thing in person in Pensacola years ago and when the 1/48 kits came out they were a must buy. Now's the time.
Dragon164
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Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2020 - 06:39 PM UTC
Sorry to hear about your friend.

Rob.