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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
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5-Ton M54 Tires
m75
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 611 posts
Armorama: 606 posts
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 01:35 PM UTC
I'm having a problem with this AM set of sagged wheels for the M54.

The DEF 35110 set for the rear sagged wheels were ordered as soon as they were announced by the manufacturer. This purchase was based on the assembled plastic dual wheels of the kit proper. The tires had an improper profile (squared-off) and when assembled, the tires were noticeably too far apart from each other in a dual set. I rounded off the square profile of the plastic tires, which gave a decent appearance but did nothing to change the distance between the wheels.

When the DEF package arrived, I sanded the tread portion lightly and assembled the dual sets. When I attempted to place them on the axles, the DEF outer tires sat well-outside of the truck bed edge and mud flaps. The "sagging" was also too pronounced, as if the truck was hauling 10 tens.

I attempted to trim back one of the brake drum assemblies on the truck, to try and bring the edge of the outer tire back in line with the cargo bed, but the DEF wheels are apparently too deep-set, and I can't remove enough of the brake drum to fit their tires. Frustrating.

It seems that someone can spec-out a set of M54 wheels with proper off-set, then obtain the proper size (and as importantly) the proper tire profile of the 1100.20 tires used all around the truck. No sag, properly reflecting the 1:1 scale item, ESPECIALLY in a dual set.

Can this information be relayed to Shapeways, or another 3-D printed model pattern maker?

BTW, this can also probably be done for the AFV Clunb M35/M109 2.5 ton truck models as well, using the proper sizes for those trucks.

The appearance is very distinctive on the 1:1 item, both 2.5 and 5 ton.
iowabrit
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Iowa, United States
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 03:07 PM UTC
Well, that sucks. I was about to order the DEF wheels when I saw this post. You would think someone at DEF would have tried them on a model before they started production but from what you say, it looks like they didn't.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 3,865 posts
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 07:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Can this information be relayed to Shapeways


Shapeways is just a printer and marketplace. They don't do any 3D designs of their own.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 3,865 posts
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 07:42 PM UTC
If the depth of the DEF wheels can be adjusted somehow, the sag itself would be probably useful for those guntrucks that had M113 hull on them.
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2017
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2018 - 08:59 PM UTC
I don t see the problem...maybe you have sanded off too much ?? I ve got the DEF wheels as well and they fit almost perfectly in depht and the sagging is not too overdone...

jvazquez
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: September 26, 2006
KitMaker: 845 posts
Armorama: 799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 01:16 AM UTC
Have you used the DEF front set? Ironically I only bought the front set because the rear were sold out, I guess now I won't be getting them now with what you described.
m75
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 611 posts
Armorama: 606 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 04:15 AM UTC
The front tires fit fine, although again the amount of sag represented, especially on the front axle, appears a little overdone.
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2017
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 05:50 AM UTC
I ve watched many M54`s pictures during the past 5 days and some have sag, some have more sag and some don t have sag..I m not talking about the gun trucks..

I think the def wheels are really fine,..only really bad thing is the bad fitting on the rear brake drums..but can also be solved with some modelling practice, but I think for such a high priced item we could expect better fitting..
m75
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 611 posts
Armorama: 606 posts
Posted: Friday, November 23, 2018 - 02:20 PM UTC
OK, I'm going out on a limb, and just ordered a set of the 5-Ton tires from Real Model. Third time is a charm, right?

Steve J / iowabrit, I'll be posting comparison of kit plastic, DEF sagged resin and the Real Model tires after they arrive from Wanamaker. I'll try to find some 1:1 images of the rear duals for comparison as well.
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2017
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2018 - 06:53 AM UTC
Hey Jim,

we will wait for your comparison. Usually DEF are fine wheels..I don t understand what the did with them..the sagging could be much less..I don t think the real model`s wheels will be better...but we will see
Reforger-Victim
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Hessen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2017
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 12:23 AM UTC
Hello,

I just got answer from DEF Model...There will be new set of wheels in spring next year...But read yourselves:

Quote:

Hi, I am Def.model's chief manager Kim.

I am also a tire product designer.
I apologize for your inconvenience with this product.
I am also sorry that I can not write directly to the community you posted.
I would appreciate it if you can tell them in there that my sorry.


After the release of the M54A2 wheel, I heard many comments from my modeling friends same as your mail.
The overlap rear wheels protrude from the outside of the car.
(But one thing is differnet, it is hard to understand that it can not be assembled.)



Now that I think about it.
When I developed this product, I actually received only the sprue of the wheels from AFV club before the AFV Club M54 kit was released.

The side view of plastic wheels seemed more flat than this tire I thought, and I thought it was unlike the real tires I've seen.
I wanted to make it have a rich volume, the shrinkage of the resin that occurs when it is produced, and I finished like this.



As a result, the thickness of the tire became 1 mm thicker than that of the kit original part.

This means that when the wheel is applied to the kit, it will pop out of the 2mm vehicle rather than the actual kit, which I think is a mistake.
But I think I made a mistake on this point.
I have not been able to confirm this by applying my wheels to the finished vehicle.
Because I did not have a kit other than a wheel sprue at that time.


A simple correction method about this problem is to remove the overlapping wheel by 1mm on both sides for already trying to apply this product .


Heavy Sagging of the tires was planned , which was to be released from AFV club with the Gun truck or M113 truck in mind .
As a result, I have deep reflection that it is not in your mind.


The product will not be available anymore, and by spring next year, the product will be rebuilt with a new design that will complement the defects.



And if there are people who want to exchange for my new product, I will change it myself. I promise.
I can not speak English well, hope my mind to convey to you well

Thank you very much for always supporting my product and Def.model.



Def.model
Kim

End of quote

I personally think it s worth to wait...Real Model's wheels have never been an option for me..

Greetings
iowabrit
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Iowa, United States
Joined: November 06, 2007
KitMaker: 585 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 03:34 AM UTC
It's good to see a manufacturer recognising a mistake and correcting it...offering to exchange the faulty sets is even better. If only more companies were this helpful.....I see dragon have re released the PzII Bison II, what's the betting it still has the incorrect 25 tooth sprocket that doesn't fit the tracks?
m75
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California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 611 posts
Armorama: 606 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 05:19 AM UTC
Wow, a reply that I had not anticipated! Very nice to see the input from the designer, who actually listened to feedback. Refreshing.

In the meantime, I have received the Real Model 5-Ton wheel set, and I promise (no, really!) to get the comparison info out later this weekend. Right now, all efforts are going to rescue the wife's laptop before she loses all of her confidential data. Normally, this is the place where we talk about the benefits of backing up data, making copies in separate locations, etc, but hey, I did say it's my wife's, right?