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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Polish PT-91
Stingershadow13
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Namur, Belgium
Joined: October 09, 2014
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 10:38 PM UTC
Hello everybody,

Lately had the crazy idea to try to model a Polish PT-91 in 1/16 scale. I have not found a model, nor a conversion set; so I will try to scratch it based on a Trumpy T-72B model.

My question is : was the PT-91 based on the T-72A or the T-72B model (only small exterior details changes)? Did it have the 'Dolly Parton' additional armour in front of the turret and did it have the kevlar type additional armour pads on top of the turret or where they removed ?

Thanks...
gecon31
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Szczecin, Poland
Joined: February 09, 2011
KitMaker: 202 posts
Armorama: 202 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:03 AM UTC
No, PT-91 wasn't based on T-72A,or T-72B. I realy don't know who told you that. PT-91 TWARDY (HARD), it is a polish modernization of T-72M1 tank, so Trumpeter's T-72B kit can not be a base for PT-91.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-91_Twardy

And check this link as well. The whole topic is in polish language, but there is a lots of pictures. You will see, what needs to be done, to have a nice PT-91 TWARDY. The kit (Tamiya T-72m1) is in 1/35 scale off course.

https://modelwork.pl/topic/28597-pt-91-twardy-135-przer%C3%B3bka-tamiyi/?tab=comments#comment-569393

You will find out, that is not so easy as you thought, because not only small exterior details has been changed. Look at it

T-72M1



PT-91 TWARDY



I wouldn't say these are only small exterior changes

Good luck
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,751 posts
Armorama: 1,718 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 05:45 PM UTC
Hi;

Great link with A Ton of Scratch Building info;
A master at work, esp; the detailed engine !!

THANKS GREG !!
CHEERS; MIKE.
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberTOS Moderator
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 4,921 posts
Armorama: 4,164 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 09:06 PM UTC
There is a paper card model in 1/16 scale of the PT-91:
https://sklep.gpm.pl/wyprzedaz/pt-91-twardy-1/16-gpm310-przybrudzona-tylna-tekturka-modelu

and in 1/25 as well (the 1/16 could be an enlargement of the 1/25 model):
https://sklep.gpm.pl/modele-kartonowe/wozy-bojowe/1/25/pt-91-twardy-1/25

I have bought the 1/25 set to use as templates to scratch build the bits and pieces needed to convert Tamiyas kit into the PT-91.
/ Robin
grunt136mike
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Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,751 posts
Armorama: 1,718 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 11:49 AM UTC
Hi;

If my memory serves Me rite, TBS made this version along with several other different versions based on the T-72. While being A resin conversion they were very basic or soft on details; One which I regret not getting was the BREM ARV which was based on the Tamiya T-72 !
Another variant that I would really like to see is the DEGMAN based on the T-72.

CHEERS; MIKE.
Stingershadow13
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Namur, Belgium
Joined: October 09, 2014
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 09:10 PM UTC
Thank you all for the replies and tips. The T72M1 is actually the export version of the T-72A isn't it?

I realize that the conversion will include extensive surgery if I want to use the Trumpy T-72B as a base, but as far as I know it is the only option in 1/16...

If anyone knows of a company that produces a T-72A turret, that will already save me a large amount of sanding to remove the add-on armour on the Trumpy kit...
dmiles
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 17, 2008
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 142 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 11:44 PM UTC
The hull for the PT-91 is going to be quite similar regardless of it be an A, B, M1 or even a T-90 (used as the basis for the current export models) the following is from Wikipedia:
T-72A (1979)[26]
Added laser rangefinder and electronic fire control, turret front and top being heavily reinforced with composite armour (nicknamed Dolly Parton by US intelligence), provisions for mounting reactive armor, smoke grenade launchers, flipper armour mount on front mudguards, internal changes.[5][26][28][29]
T-72M
Export version, similar to T-72A. Also built in Poland and former Czechoslovakia.
T-72B (1985)[26]
New main gun, stabilizer, sights, and fire control, capable of firing 9M119 Svir guided missile, additional armour including 20 mm (0.8 in) of appliqué armour in the front of hull, improved 840 hp (630 kW) engine.
Not real a great difference between the A and the B.

I would think the turret would be the main concern, however given that the forward section of this is mostly covered with blocks and the rear section (around the hatches) appear similar on all the rounded turrets I wouldn’t be personally concerned.

Check these miniarm turrets from various periods and other than the stuff hang off them they look very similar to each other:
Miniarm A turret
http://www.miniarm.com/enlarge/151715175929608.jpg
B M1 m1989
http://www.miniarm.com/enlarge/142120652025729.jpg
(again, ignore the applique but look at the shape.
B3 m2012
http://www.miniarm.com/enlarge/142120643751706.jpg

this link has heaps of reference pics:
https://modelwork.pl/topic/28-pt-91-twardy/
and this one is the build of a person that goes by the name of Flacha and is an excellent source:
https://pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=80585&sid=3acb2207367d56648abe66ca764a83d5
page 2 has a lot of turret pic with the additions required.

I have recently decided to build a new PT-91 as the one I built in 2011 was based totally on the Tamiya kit and the turret shape and sizing issues have got to me and I need to build a better one.

In the end all that matters (unless you’re a rivet counter) is will you be happy with the end result, I was with the Tamiya kit but as skills improve we always want to make a better version of something.

I say Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Go for it with the B kit.
Stingershadow13
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Namur, Belgium
Joined: October 09, 2014
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 11:53 PM UTC
Thanks for the info, now all I have to do is sit down and do it, keep me posted if you decide to build a new version.

Maybe we can keep ourselves updated during the progress: you in 1/35 and I in 1/16; will be like a group build...
dmiles
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 17, 2008
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 142 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 12:04 AM UTC
My build will be sometime in the future (but may be not the Tour De France is coming up and it is night here in Aust and I build my last one during the 2011 tour so may be) however I currently have T-84 oplot, Leopard MEXAS, Challenger2 and a Canadian TLAV (mostly scratch built) awaiting painting and am in the middle of the Scammell Pioneer artillery tractor with a growing collection that my partner questions when I buy something new, always need new things because I haven't got it. I will be interested in your build and yes the surgery on the turret will suck but that's modelling.
Cheers

David
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,612 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 01:21 AM UTC
T-72M1 is the export version of the T-72A. However, the PT-91 was made from the Polish license built version of the T-72M1, so there are differences from the Soviet or Czech built versions.

The 1/16 Trumpeter T-72B would require a new turret, or a heavily modified one, to be correct.

Here is a website I found on converting the T-72B kit to R/C, but it has some helpful information on the kit as well: http://www.modelersite.com/en/112897/trumpeter-t-72-mbt-to-rc-1-16-scale

This 1/16 metal T-72 turret from Poland may be your answer, but all I can say about it for sure is that it is not a T-72B turret: eBay listing
Stingershadow13
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Namur, Belgium
Joined: October 09, 2014
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 08:49 PM UTC
Waw, thanks for that useful info. I immediately bought in on ebay.

With some serious surgery, I might combine both this one and the Trumpy to get started...
stephane
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: October 10, 2005
KitMaker: 402 posts
Armorama: 399 posts
Posted: Friday, May 24, 2019 - 03:43 AM UTC
I thinks that T72M1 is just a T72A with armor plate on the front hull (like Tamiya's kit).