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Pinks And Greens
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 01:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Miminart kit got the paint directions wrong, so you cannot go by those. Also the Osprey book didn't say a lot about service as opposed to combat uniforms. Thanks for the explanation. I assumed the trousers were tan rather than any type of pink.




The "tan" trousers you're referring to were actually the Khaki Shade 1 Cotton Class A Uniform Trousers, which matched the summer-weight Khaki Shade 1 Cotton Service Coats and Service Shirts. There were also Officers' and EMs' Service Caps and Garrison Caps which were manufactured in Khaki Shade 1 Cotton. Khaki Shade 1 Cotton Uniform items weren't supposed to be worn with the Dark OD Shade 51 Officers' Service Coats, Trousers or Service Shirts. That's what "Drab" was for.

"Drab" is actually the color's name for the "Pink" Trousers in the "Pinks and Greens".

"Drab" is a "beige-y" almost chocolate-milk color with just the tiniest touch of pink to it... You'd have to see an actual WWII-vintage Drab item to be able to understand the differences between it, US Khaki Shade 1, US Dark OD Shade 51 "Elastique", and EMs' OD Shade 39 Wool Serge... Am I making any sense..?
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 12:49 PM UTC
The Miminart kit got the paint directions wrong, so you cannot go by those. Also the Osprey book didn't say a lot about service as opposed to combat uniforms. Thanks for the explanation. I assumed the trousers were tan rather than any type of pink.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 11:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ironically enough, looking at the Osprey book I referred to earlier, I'm wondering if they two figures are supposed to be wearing chocolate brown uniforms after all. The book mentioned pinks and greens as part of older, 1944-era uniforms, and I'm looking at late 1944-early 1045.



First, are you looking at US Army Officers or Enlisted Men in your Osprey book?

Second, there were NO differences between Officers' Class A "Dress" Uniforms from February of 1942 until well into the mid 1950s- I don't quite understand how you or the OSPREY book could be saying that "1944-era uniforms" could be different from anything you're looking at from "late 1944-early 1945"..? Ditto, the EMs' Class A Wool Serge Shade 39 OD uniforms...

You can't believe everything you read, because the OSPREY book or the author of the book could be wrong, which I doubt. Or could it be possible that you're not quite understanding what the author is trying to say..? It happens sometimes that mistakes are made in books because of artists' or printers' errors... I don't know- I don't have your book in front of my eyes, so I can't comment on what your book says...

The ONLY US Army Uniforms that underwent any real changes were COMBAT Uniforms, when the US Army started issuing the M1943 Combat Jackets & Trousers AND the M1943 Combat Boots in mid to late 1944. Even so, the 1941/1942-style US Army COMBAT clothing in many cases, was still being worn beyond VE and VJ Days in 1945, some articles of which were still being worn into the mid 1950s, as I mentioned in relation to the CLass A "Dress" Uniforms.

During WWII, it was the OFFICERS of the US Army who wore the "Pinks and Greens", which weren't really "PINK" OR "GREEN". "Pinks and Greens" were really Dark OD Shade 51 "Elastique" for the OFFICERS' COATS, and DRAB TROUSERS, ON OCCASION. "DRAB" looked a little bit "pink" in certain lighting conditions, so that's where the name "PINKS"comes from. There was NO OFFICIAL NAME for the "Pinks and Greens", PERIOD.

The "Elastique" Dark OD Shade 51, was also sometimes referred to as "Chocolate", but the color was actually a VERY DARK, RICH OD (Olive Drab), with a slightly brownish cast.

"PINKS and GREENS" were ONLY A NICKNAME for that OPTIONAL way of wearing the Officers' Class A "Dress" Uniform. OFFICIALLY, US ARMY Class A "Dress" Uniforms were to be worn with Dark OD Shade 51 TROUSERS, NOT the Drab (Pink) Trousers. "Pinks and Greens" were STRICTLY OFFICERS' clothing items, and the words, "PINKS and GREENS" were strictly slang expressions, which were originally coined by the US Army Officers who chose to wear them in that fashion...

EMs, or Enlisted Men, wore OD Wool Serge Class A Uniform items in the Winter, Spring and Autumn, which after 1942, were issued in OD Wool Serge Shade 39; these were a completely different color and texture from the Officers' clothing.

Khaki Cotton Shade 1 Uniform items were worn by both Officers and EMs in the Summer, and in especially hot geographical areas, when they were required to wear their Class A "Dress and Service" Uniforms, respectively...

There were NO such things as "1944-era uniforms" or "late 1944-early 1945" US Army Uniforms. What they WERE, were new-issue uniforms, starting in February 1942, and worn until into the mid-1950s...

Have I cleared anything up for you..? Sometimes books and their authors, in the interests of brevity, can leave the reader mightily confused...

If you think that THIS is nuts, try reading the GERMAN WWII Uniform Regs, IN GERMAN!!!
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 10:11 AM UTC
Ironically enough, looking at the Osprey book I referred to earlier, I'm wondering if they two figures are supposed to be wearing chocolate brown uniforms after all. The book mentioned pinks and greens as part of older, 1944-era uniforms, and I'm looking at late 1944-early 1045.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2019 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dennis, you're exactly right when you said it looked like Halloween.

Military uniforms have always been about dressing up in costumes.

I was asking for dress blues for class A uniform back in the 1990s. With kepis or Hardee hats.

These new uniforms will never match up to the original, nor are they meant to. That's not what "tribute" means. Inspired by but updated ( read as ruined) for today.

Just like any Star Trek reboot or tribute or new series.

Well at least there's no Ike jackets.

Everybody will look like extras from "Catch-22"



Hi, Steve!

(sigh) Is nothing "real" any more..? Not even "real" food is real, unless you grow or raise it on your own farm, if you get my drift...

One can see from the photos that the cloth of the Uniforms in the photos isn't made of the wool serge (EMs) or the "Elastique" (Officers); it looks like some Chinese kind of polyester, if you ask me...

Yeah, "Catch-22" is right. I thought that Joseph Heller's book was "creative", outrageously funny in some spots and entertaining through most of it, but the movie was just "surrealistic garbage", much like 99% of anything Hollywood puts together- WAAAAAAY too much "artistic license". Exceptions "to the rule of Hollywood" were HBO's mini-series "Band of Brothers" and the "The Pacific"... I thought "Dunkirk" was a FAIL...
Bravo1102
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 08:27 PM UTC
Dennis, you're exactly right when you said it looked like Halloween.

Military uniforms have always been about dressing up in costumes.

I was asking for dress blues for class A uniform back in the 1990s. With kepis or Hardee hats.

These new uniforms will never match up to the original, nor are they meant to. That's not what "tribute" means. Inspired by but updated ( read as ruined) for today.

Just like any Star Trek reboot or tribute or new series.

Well at least there's no Ike jackets.

Everybody will look like extras from "Catch-22"
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 07:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Yep-- a little "Halloweenish". But If I read the article correctly, the uniform isn't finalized until December. And has progressed from the ones pictured above. What we're seeing here are the "options". If you read the original article, there is a photo of a proposed female and male Officer uniform, (I think the male is wearing an enlisted variation, judging by the cap badge and shoulder patch). These uniforms are more closely cut to the 60s-90s Class A uniform, with the gold buttons, and look much better (to me anyway) than the photos above of the EM uniforms. I think the colors are great too.
Those Canadians do look sharp in those colors, kind of impressive really-- very "military" looking. I was always proud of my Class-A uniform, but I also felt kind of like I was wearing a combination train conductor-airline pilots uniform at times. And we were never allowed to take the "grommet" out of our caps for that "50 mission crush" look. Once I made Major though, I did wear my Father-in-Law's cap from the early 60s, which was cut like the previous caps (officers caps were manufactured by several different companies, and each might have a slight variation). His cap had a thin metal band around the inside rim, which caused it to look a little more like a "50 Mission crush" cap-- it had a sharper peak to it. Boy are we off topic here.
VR, Russ



I likened the "new" Service Caps to the WWII NAZI SS "Peaked" Caps, ("Peaked", referring to their "Bills", which ALWAYS sows confusion as to the caps' styles)... The "peak" of the CROWN of the "new" Service Cap is too pointed, which is what I was talking about. The new caps look like WWII SS Peaked Caps with US Army insignia plastered on them in lieu of the NAZI SS Eagle...

This exaggerated "style" of Service Cap just doesn't "come off" very well with the WWII US Army-style Uniform. This "style" of Service Cap also fits some "Third World-Republica Del Banana" tin-horn dictator, or some "Daffy Kadaffi/Idi Amin" type of a yahoo better than the US Army. C'mon!!!

If "they" are going to revive the "WWII Crush" Service Cap, make it at least LOOK like the WWII US Army article, rather than some cheap-ass "comic-opera Dictator-General's/Hotel Door Man's" abomination...

At least the original WWII US Army Service Cap had "style"...

The "newer-style" 1960s US Army Officers' and EMs' Class A Uniforms really didn't have a "tailored-look" to them at all- YES, they kind of looked like Airline Pilots/Train Conductor Uniforms. Ditto, today's US Air Force Officers' Class A Uniforms, as well.

The individual WWII Officer's Class A Uniforms many times were "tailored" to fit the particular Officer who was going to wear them, thus providing that stylish "look", which was broad-shouldered and wasp-waisted, with the belt accentuating the "look", not like some old burlap potato sack...
long_tom
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 12:45 PM UTC
http://www.militaryandpolicesupply.net/Index.asp

I haven't been there in a while, but I believe they still have the real things.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 11:42 AM UTC
Yep-- a little "Halloweenish". But If I read the article correctly, the uniform isn't finalized until December. And has progressed from the ones pictured above. What we're seeing here are the "options". If you read the original article, there is a photo of a proposed female and male Officer uniform, (I think the male is wearing an enlisted variation, judging by the cap badge and shoulder patch). These uniforms are more closely cut to the 60s-90s Class A uniform, with the gold buttons, and look much better (to me anyway) than the photos above of the EM uniforms. I think the colors are great too.
Those Canadians do look sharp in those colors, kind of impressive really-- very "military" looking. I was always proud of my Class-A uniform, but I also felt kind of like I was wearing a combination train conductor-airline pilots uniform at times. And we were never allowed to take the "grommet" out of our caps for that "50 mission crush" look. Once I made Major though, I did wear my Father-in-Law's cap from the early 60s, which was cut like the previous caps (officers caps were manufactured by several different companies, and each might have a slight variation). His cap had a thin metal band around the inside rim, which caused it to look a little more like a "50 Mission crush" cap-- it had a sharper peak to it. Boy are we off topic here.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 10:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dennis, I agree with you about the "Army-Navy" stores of days gone by-- there are none anymore. When I see the word "Surplus" I just laugh. Surplus imported junk is a better term for them. But, I have to disgree a bit about the "new" uniform. It's designed as a "throwback", the new "official" uniform of an Armed Service, and as such it sets a "new" standard in cut, cloth and wear-- it's designed to appear similar, not to be the same. Texas A&M has done the same thing since WWII. No doubt the materials in this new uniform will be different, but it makes them no less "official". And they will be available for purchase in the Army clothing sales store soon I understand. I have mixed feelings, having worn a uniform for 30 years. It might be time to drop this uniform change nonsense the Army has dealt with for the last few years, at the same time, this is the style of uniform the rank and file have asked for for many years. But, I don't know if I'd like to wear it myself. It seems a little "sacreligious" to me? Kind of a "dress up"? Almost "Halloweenish" so to speak? Deja vu maybe? I don't know, as I have mixed feelings about it. But since I'm retired, I guess I really don't have a say so!
VR, Russ



Hi, Russ!

A bit "Halloween-ish"..? Yes, I'll agree to that; They seem to be sort of a caricature of the WWII US Army Uniform, rather than a tribute. Maybe if the designers had approached the design of these new Uniforms with a sense of fidelity to form and color, rather than "flash", with compensations for the larger sizes that our men and women in the Army are today, I think that they might have come off, better. The women wearing the mens' "Crush", is another matter. The "Crush" just doesn't look right on the female head, IMO. I understand all the "equality" stuff, but somehow, the male-style of the WWII US Army Uniform just doesn't suit women. The WACs, WAVES and US Marine Corps Women's Reserves had their own Uniforms during WWII, and these Uniforms were very flattering ones and they were form-fitting to enhance the female figure...

The "Crush" just doesn't look right, either- Too high in the crown, like some NAZI SS Cap during WWII. Put the Rubber Grommet back in for formal occasions, and take the grommet out for whenever, if you want. Just don't mess with the WWII Uniform's original styles or colors... Just my opinions, that's all...
tangodown
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 09:44 AM UTC
Just as a side note. The Canadian Special Operations Regiment has also gone retro with a direct nod to their lineage from the 1st Special service force ( my grandfather served in the second regiment and was wounded during the breakout from Anzio). You can see they are even using the crossed arrow collar dog and the Red Arrow head patch sans USA/Canada.

Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 08:04 AM UTC
Dennis, I agree with you about the "Army-Navy" stores of days gone by-- there are none anymore. When I see the word "Surplus" I just laugh. Surplus imported junk is a better term for them. But, I have to disgree a bit about the "new" uniform. It's designed as a "throwback", the new "official" uniform of an Armed Service, and as such it sets a "new" standard in cut, cloth and wear-- it's designed to appear similar, not to be the same. Texas A&M has done the same thing since WWII. No doubt the materials in this new uniform will be different, but it makes them no less "official". And they will be available for purchase in the Army clothing sales store soon I understand. I have mixed feelings, having worn a uniform for 30 years. It might be time to drop this uniform change nonsense the Army has dealt with for the last few years, at the same time, this is the style of uniform the rank and file have asked for for many years. But, I don't know if I'd like to wear it myself. It seems a little "sacreligious" to me? Kind of a "dress up"? Almost "Halloweenish" so to speak? Deja vu maybe? I don't know, as I have mixed feelings about it. But since I'm retired, I guess I really don't have a say so!
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 07:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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I'm referring to the late WW2 officer's service uniforms of course. Problem is, I'm not sure what exactly what colors they are supposed to be. I have the Miniart figures and references, but no precise information on what the colors are supposed to be.



"Pinks and Greens" are still traditionally worn as the dress uniform by the Cadet Corps at Texas A&M today. They were adopted pre-WWII and primarily a wool gaberdine officers uniform, consisting of dark tan trousers with a very slight "rosey-brown" hue (hence the "pink"-- but not really any pink is in it at all) and a gaberdine jacket of a dark OD green. Post WWII, they were replaced by an all green winter uniform, and an all tan summer uniform. These were in turn replaced by the "Green" service uniform in the late 60s. The "pink and green" uniform is currently under revision for adoption by the Army as the next "Service Uniform" (some of the above photos) to replace the "Dress Blue" uniform as the service uniform. Here's an article about the Army's new uniform, with plenty of history on the old uniform:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/army-close-finalizing-pinks-greens-uniform-all-soldiers.html
VR, Russ



Ah, ah, ah! Not so fast...

"Pinks and Greens" referred to the WWII-style US Army Class A Officers' Uniform which has been described above. However, "Pinks and Greens" were not the official standard....

"Pinks" were merely an option that could be worn when the official Class A Officers' OD Shade 51 Service Trousers were not necessarily required. That means every day Officers' dress-wear, and not official functions such as "decoration ceremonies" and the like.


Hopefully, I've cleared up the muddy waters, some. "Pinks and Greens" were for the Officers' "unofficial discretions" and not really "required wear"...




Dennis, you've given an ecellent and exceptionally detailed answer to the pre--and -WWII US Army description of Pinks & Greens. But You've said the items in the photos are poor reproductions. Those are not reproductions at all, they are the new US Army uniform, throwing back to the previous "Pinks and Greens"--and the photos above are all enlisted photos from the current SMA down. Officers are shown in the attached article. There are no officers photos included in the ones above. (I have no idea what they look like in person-- but I have a friend who's a full AD Colonel who's bemoaning the fact there's yet another uniform change, which means they'll have to spend money yet again.
VR, Russ





Hi, Russ!

The uniforms in the photos are poor reproductions of the actual WWII Uniforms, as in color and in execution. I didn't say that the uniforms shown in the photos are poor reproductions of what the US Army will be putting into service.(?) The EMs' uniforms in the photos are the impressions of someone or some people who THOUGHT that's what the original WWII Uniforms looked like... Sorry, but THEY get no cigar(s). If you had actual samples of the real McCoys right in front of you, I think that you would agree with me. The actual colors are richer...

The real items are available for scrutiny, but any more, you have to search them out in people's homes and in antique shops, or on EBAY for Christmas sakes!!!. Getting hold of the original, actual, rich "Elastique" gabardine materials for the Officers' Uniforms especially, could be likened to the search for the Holy Grail. The way to find these actual WWII items is to comb the flea markets at the reenactment shows, such as the "D-Day Weekend" extravaganza at the Mid Atlantic Air Museum, Reading, Pennsylvania. But you're going to pay an arm, a leg AND your HEAD for them...

The repro-people have been getting a little bit better in trying to reproduce the Dark OD Shade 51 "Chocolate" color, which isn't BROWN or GREEN, but it IS a true OD. The pictures shown of the Army's "new Pinks and Greens" show Uniforms which are a mere "approximation" of the rich colors of the real WWII items, especially the Officers' OD Shade 51, which was much darker than what is portrayed in the photos in the attached article. The same can be said for the EMs' OD Shade 39 Wool Serge. If the US Army was going to get ACCURATE reproductions of the actual WWII Officers' and EMs' Uniforms, they would need to spend easily SEVERAL times the money that they plan to spend for these "reproductions" of same. That's because "Elastique" and Wool Serge have been replaced by Chinese-made plastic of some kind.

The richness of the color and the actual texture of the Officers' "Elastique" material is a tough one to reproduce, as is the EMs' OD Wool Serge. NONE of the fakes come close to the quality or the heft of the real thing. I know, and I've compared them, side by side. And the "Parsons" Jackets and Web Equipment..? WATCH OUT!!!

I was VERY fortunate in that I bought my WWII Officers' and EMs' Uniform items back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, when such items were still in stock in Army-Navy Surplus stores. Army-Navy Stores today have nothing but fake approximations of what real CONTEMPORARY military clothing items are supposed to be, never mind the WWII items... Mostly, today's Army-Navy Stores are an almost criminal misnomer- They carry Orange and Blue Yuppie camping stuff, NIKE sneakers and MAYBE a few camo Boonie hats or a few clothing items, and NOTHING even remotely MILITARY in their stock!!!
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 06:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm referring to the late WW2 officer's service uniforms of course. Problem is, I'm not sure what exactly what colors they are supposed to be. I have the Miniart figures and references, but no precise information on what the colors are supposed to be.



"Pinks and Greens" are still traditionally worn as the dress uniform by the Cadet Corps at Texas A&M today. They were adopted pre-WWII and primarily a wool gaberdine officers uniform, consisting of dark tan trousers with a very slight "rosey-brown" hue (hence the "pink"-- but not really any pink is in it at all) and a gaberdine jacket of a dark OD green. Post WWII, they were replaced by an all green winter uniform, and an all tan summer uniform. These were in turn replaced by the "Green" service uniform in the late 60s. The "pink and green" uniform is currently under revision for adoption by the Army as the next "Service Uniform" (some of the above photos) to replace the "Dress Blue" uniform as the service uniform. Here's an article about the Army's new uniform, with plenty of history on the old uniform:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/army-close-finalizing-pinks-greens-uniform-all-soldiers.html
VR, Russ



Ah, ah, ah! Not so fast...

"Pinks and Greens" referred to the WWII-style US Army Class A Officers' Uniform which has been described above. However, "Pinks and Greens" were not the official standard....

"Pinks" were merely an option that could be worn when the official Class A Officers' OD Shade 51 Service Trousers were not necessarily required. That means every day Officers' dress-wear, and not official functions such as "decoration ceremonies" and the like.


Hopefully, I've cleared up the muddy waters, some. "Pinks and Greens" were for the Officers' "unofficial discretions" and not really "required wear"...




Dennis, you've given an ecellent and exceptionally detailed answer to the pre--and -WWII US Army description of Pinks & Greens. But You've said the items in the photos are poor reproductions. Those are not reproductions at all, they are the new US Army uniform, throwing back to the previous "Pinks and Greens"--and the photos above are all enlisted photos from the current SMA down. Officers are shown in the attached article. There are no officers photos included in the ones above. (I have no idea what they look like in person-- but I have a friend who's a full AD Colonel who's bemoaning the fact there's yet another uniform change, which means they'll have to spend money yet again.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 06:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm referring to the late WW2 officer's service uniforms of course. Problem is, I'm not sure what exactly what colors they are supposed to be. I have the Miniart figures and references, but no precise information on what the colors are supposed to be.



"Pinks and Greens" are still traditionally worn as the dress uniform by the Cadet Corps at Texas A&M today. They were adopted pre-WWII and primarily a wool gaberdine officers uniform, consisting of dark tan trousers with a very slight "rosey-brown" hue (hence the "pink"-- but not really any pink is in it at all) and a gaberdine jacket of a dark OD green. Post WWII, they were replaced by an all green winter uniform, and an all tan summer uniform. These were in turn replaced by the "Green" service uniform in the late 60s. The "pink and green" uniform is currently under revision for adoption by the Army as the next "Service Uniform" (some of the above photos) to replace the "Dress Blue" uniform as the service uniform. Here's an article about the Army's new uniform, with plenty of history on the old uniform:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/army-close-finalizing-pinks-greens-uniform-all-soldiers.html
VR, Russ



Ah, ah, ah! Not so fast...

"Pinks and Greens" referred to the WWII-style US Army Class A Officers' Uniform which has been described above. However, "Pinks and Greens" were not the official standard as set down by the US Army. I will first explain the Officers' Uniform; I will then explain the Enlisted Mens' Uniforms, hereafter referred to as EMs' Uniforms.

The Official US Army Class A Uniform, (as of November 4, 1942) called for the Officers' Service Coat AND Trousers of Wool Elastique, sometimes referred to as "gabardine". This was an especially fine-quality material, manufactured in Dark OD Shade 51, ofttimes referred to as "Chocolate". This coat was a four-"flap-pocket" design, with brass buttons, with integrated Epaulettes. These were sewn into the shoulder at the sleeve end, and buttoned down at the collar. German Uniform-fans will note that high-ranking German Officers' (Field-grade and above) Epaulettes were separate pieces, which were attached with a sling under the Epaulette, and buttoned-down at the collar. Some of the Officers' Service Coats featured a two-vented, bi-swing back, depending on the manufacturer. Many others were were made without the vents. The Officers' Service Coat featured a tapered pattern to accentuate the male figure, and an attached OD Shade 51 Belt, fasted at the back, and closed by means of a brass Buckle at the front.

I'm lucky to own one of each type, plus a full Class A Summer Cotton Khaki Officer's Uniform, (Khaki Shade 1), with the option of wearing either the Cotton Khaki Officer's Service Cap, or the Khaki Cotton Garrison Cap, sometimes referred to as the "P*ss-Cutter", or "C*nt-Cap".

More affluent, higher-ranking US Army Officers usually had their Class A Uniforms custom-made and tailored, however these uniforms still had to conform to Mil. Specs. General George S. Patton was a classic example of the leeway that the US Army allowed high-ranking Officers concerning their Uniform items. About 1943, US Army Officers and EMs started to have some of their Service Coats cut at the waist, mimicking General Eisenhower's cut-down Jackets- That's how the "Ike Jacket" came into being. It, was not an official US Army item, but it was deemed to be "OK" for everyday wear.

The Officers' Service Coat also featured a half-inch strip of OD Shade 53 mohair braid, 3-inches above the cuff. This high-quality Uniform was specified to be worn with the DRAB Officers' Pattern Dress Shirt, and the Khaki Mohair Tie. "DRAB" was the official US Army name of the color referred to as "PINK". Drab cloth material does indeed have a "pinkish"-cast to it, but "Pink" was strictly a slang term and not an official name for that color.

Prior to December 1941, a Black Tie was specified to be worn. During the early months of 1942, the Black tie was officially replaced by the Khaki Mohair Tie. Some of the photos in this thread show people wearing OD Ties, which were never specified by the US Army.

"Pinks" were merely an option that could be worn when the official Class A Officers' OD Shade 51 Service Trousers were not necessarily required. That means every day Officers' dress-wear, and not official functions such as "decoration ceremonies" and the like.

In addition to the Drab Shirt, Officers had the option of wearing the Officers' Pattern OD Dark Shade 51 Winter Service Shirt with the Khaki Mohair Tie, and also had the options of wearing Officers' Pattern wool shirts in either OD Shade 50, OD Light Shade 54, Khaki Shade 1, or in Summer, cotton Officers' Pattern service Shirts in Khaki Shade 1.

Service Shoes were officially to be manufactured in Russet leather or Oxblood leather, after a civilian "Oxford"-pattern.

The Official Officers' Service Cap, (the one with the round crown and Russet leather peak, or bill) was manufactured in OD Shade 51, with a mohair Shade 53 band, and a Russet leather Peak and double Chin Strap, attached with twin brass buttons at the temples. This cap had a semi-stiff rubber grommet inside of the Crown, in order to keep the cap's round shape. The Service Caps shown in the photos are REPRODUCTIONS, and not very good ones, at that. I have 2 ORIGINAL WWII Officers' Service Caps in my collection of WWII Uniforms, one with the rubber grommet in the crown, and one without the grommet, in order to represent the USAAF-style "50-Mission Crush". Both of these caps are of very good quality, and even my "Crush" has a "softer and richer" look to it than those fakes in the photos. The grommets were originally removed from the Service Caps by "rebellious" USAAC flying Officers and aircrew, (US Army Air Corps, prior to becoming the US Army Air Forces) in early 1942), since many of them wore the caps while flying and wearing their "commo" Headphones. They also looked a little bit "racier" with the grommets removed. Many Officers kept TWO OD Shade 51 Service Caps; one for every day service and "walking out", and one for the formal "decoration ceremonies", parades, etc.

I also have 2 different Officers' Pattern Garrison Caps- one in OD Shade 51 Elastique and the other in OD Shade 39 Wool Serge. Both have the required Officers' Gold/Black Piping.

My pride and joy in my uniform collection is my OD Shade 51 Class A USAAF Major General's Uniform; Service Coat & Trousers, OD Shade 51 Shirt, Khaki Mohair Tie, Russet Shoes, and my OD Shade 51 "50-Mission Crush", or I can wear my OD Shade 51 Garrison Cap. These are ALL original WWII items. I am also lucky enough to own an Officer's OD Shade 51 "Ike" Jacket.

Just for conversations' sake, I also have a US Army Cavalry Officer's Uniform, (Major, 5th Cavalry, circa 1925), complete with Riding Breeches, Russet elk Hide leather Laced-and-Buckle riding Boots, a "proper" Campaign Hat, Sam Browne Belt with M1912 Holster and leather Riding Crop. All original stuff. It took me YEARS and a small fortune to get that uniform together. Also, I have a WWII US Navy Rear Admiral's "Blues", with the appropriate White Service Cap. I've yet to put together the equivalent-rank "Whites" Summer Uniform...

Enlisted Mens' Uniforms-

I'm only going to describe a few basics of the EMs Class A Service Uniforms-

EMs didn't wear Class A "Pinks and Greens", because:

a. They didn't have any "Pinks" to wear, and

b. They wore OD Shade 39 M1939 wool serge Service Coats and generally M1937 Light Shade OD Trousers prior to 1942, which were only SLIGHTLY lighter in color as compared to their M1939 Service Coats. No such thing as custom-made tailoring, or "mix and match" for EMs.

Wool trousers manufactured in OD Shade 39 were proscribed in early 1942. I have these original items in my collection as well, so it's easy for me to compare and comment upon them.

The EMs' Pattern Service Shirts could vary; these were made in various shades of OD Wool or Wool Flannel, for winter wear. These varied between manufacturers. The "Lightest" Shade of OD in the EMs' wool Service Shirts was sometimes referred to as "Mustard", but shades usually ran between OD Shades M1937 and M1939.

Service Shoes were manufactured in Russet leather, and depending on the service required, could be supplemented with the M1938 Leggings.

Summer-weight Cotton Khaki Uniforms were also supplied in Shade 1 Khaki. Service and Garrison Caps were made of the same OD Shade 37, followed with Shade 39 items in 1942. I'm not going to go into Combat Uniform items, as we are discussing "Pinks and Greens" in this thread.

Hopefully, I've cleared up the muddy waters, some. "Pinks and Greens" were for the Officers' "unofficial discretions" and not really "required wear"...
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 03:33 AM UTC
You know, I showed the photo of the new uniform to my wife, who's Dad wore Pinks & Greens during WWII and after. She was flabbergasted. Her comment was the same as mine above--"they'll find out the pants get dirty faster". Which was one reason the Army dropped the uniform in the first place. When the Army went to Khakis in the 1950s-early 70s, they still had that problem. You had to be careful where you sat, because they'd pick up every bit of dirt like a magnet. The brown shoes (they were black in my case with Khakis) had a tendency to transfer shoe polish and grime off the soles to the lower legs too. Oh well--they do look good. Love that "50 Mission crush" thing they have going with the caps. 😆
VR, Russ
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 - 02:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Yeah well-- I wore the uniform before that one-- so that must mean I'm older than dirt now! I was in the HTTB (9th Division) when this uniform was being tested-- and wore 2 variations of it between 1981-1982-- along with the BDU’s we tested what we know now as MREs, before that we ate "C's and wore "Utilities" with a baseball cap. Summer uniform was a poplin short sleeved Khaki "blouse" and long trousers. Formal wear was either a White dress uniform or Dress Blues, if you were really fancy, "Dress Mess". By the way-- that helmet wasn't the one we wore--it was the steel pot (still have mine)-- so the guy in this picture is just a "baby". 😆
VR, Russ





I remember the steel pots. I had one at Basic. By the time I got to Germany (Cooke Barracks...1st ID(Forward)) a year and a half later, I got s shiny, new K-pot!


Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 02:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looks like Sergeant Major of the Army Dailey's hat is a little big for him...

My kid brother sent this to me the other day...








Yeah well-- I wore the uniform before that one-- so that must mean I'm older than dirt now! I was in the HTTB (9th Division) when this uniform was being tested-- and wore 2 variations of it between 1981-1982-- along with the BDU’s we tested what we know now as MREs, before that we ate "C's and wore "Utilities" with a baseball cap. Summer uniform was a poplin short sleeved Khaki "blouse" and long trousers. Formal wear was either a White dress uniform or Dress Blues, if you were really fancy, "Dress Mess". By the way-- that helmet wasn't the one we wore--it was the steel pot (still have mine)-- so the guy in this picture is just a "baby". 😆
VR, Russ
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 01:13 PM UTC
Looks like Sergeant Major of the Army Dailey's hat is a little big for him...

My kid brother sent this to me the other day...





b2nhvi
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 12:54 PM UTC
Lifecolor makes a US uniform set. I think it has these colors.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 11:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the 3 pictures, but what era are they from and what service?


The photos are all of the new Army uniform. But, the colors are fairly true to the old "Pinks and Greens" from the late 1930s to the early 1940s. These uniforms were exclusively worn by the US Army and US Army Air Corps. That last picture is of the current Sergeant Major of the Army wearing the proposed uniform-- I think at the 2018 Army-Navy Game. Just a side bar here, in the 30 years I spent in the Army, I lived through at least 6 uniform changes of one type or another, for one reason or another. When discussing what uniform was the "best" Army uniform while I was in, everybody always brought up "Pinks and Greens". I was a "test subject" when the BDUs were being proposed, and I remember the discussion about having a more "combat like" uniform. Frankly, I secretly wished the Pinks & Grens would also come back. But then I remembered how hard the tan pants of our "khakis" were to take care of (they were easily stained). I hope the troops are happy with this new uniform.
VR, Russ
long_tom
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 11:49 AM UTC
Thanks for the 3 pictures, but what era are they from and what service?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 11:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm referring to the late WW2 officer's service uniforms of course. Problem is, I'm not sure what exactly what colors they are supposed to be. I have the Miniart figures and references, but no precise information on what the colors are supposed to be.



"Pinks and Greens" are still traditionally worn as the dress uniform by the Cadet Corps at Texas A&M today. They were adopted pre-WWII and primarily a wool gaberdine officers uniform, consisting of dark tan trousers with a very slight "rosey-brown" hue (hence the "pink"-- but not really any pink is in it at all) and a gaberdine jacket of a dark OD green. Post WWII, they were replaced by an all green winter uniform, and an all tan summer uniform. These were in turn replaced by the "Green" service uniform in the late 60s. The "pink and green" uniform is currently under revision for adoption by the Army as the next "Service Uniform" (some of the above photos) to replace the "Dress Blue" uniform as the service uniform. Here's an article about the Army's new uniform, with plenty of history on the old uniform:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/army-close-finalizing-pinks-greens-uniform-all-soldiers.html
VR, Russ
Epi
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 11:20 AM UTC
Not what you've asked for Tom, but maybe this could help you out.





long_tom
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 - 11:15 AM UTC
Sorry, forgot to mention US Army in my original post. Evidently the dark tunic and lighter-colored trousers was unique to them.