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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
vallejo acrylic polyurethane primer advice re
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 04:12 AM UTC
finally making a concerted effort to learn the black (or in this case grey) art of airbrushing. have several kits in Vallejo primer.
Q: how long before the light intercoat touch-up sanding (400 grit) can be done without peeling the paint back?
Q: after sanding and any subassembly work prior to final coats, what method of surface cleaning can be done without compromising the primer coat?

thanks
Doodeck
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: August 15, 2014
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 96 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 04:55 AM UTC
Well, prepare yourself for a nervous breakdown...
My experience with Vallejo primers are mostly negative. Only way to sand it (and by sanding it I mean only light sanding) for me was possible if I applied it in several VERY thin layers, leaving each layer to dry before next one. After the final one i left it to dry for 2-3 days. Some people claim that they were able to sand it without problem, but again, my experience is not positive. Since I switched to Mig's One shot primer (aka Stynylrez), I'm the new man
For cleaning before final paint work, I washed the model as before priming, soapy water and rinsing. Never had any reactions.
Good luck.
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ö experience with Vallejo primers are mostly negative. Only way to sand it (and by sanding it I mean only light sanding) for me was possible if I applied it in several VERY thin layers, leaving each layer to dry before next one. After the final one i left it to dry for 2-3 days....




thanks. I understand it's a some love/ some don't product. I have 3 bottles so want to give it a shot. thin coats for sure. like the way it levels out.

I understand it to be a soft finish, but didn't know if water rinse would reactivate it to sludge!

thanks for the input and round-about encouragement!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 10:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ö experience with Vallejo primers are mostly negative. Only way to sand it (and by sanding it I mean only light sanding) for me was possible if I applied it in several VERY thin layers, leaving each layer to dry before next one. After the final one i left it to dry for 2-3 days....




thanks. I understand it's a some love/ some don't product. I have 3 bottles so want to give it a shot. thin coats for sure. like the way it levels out.

I understand it to be a soft finish, but didn't know if water rinse would reactivate it to sludge!

thanks for the input and round-about encouragement!



THIS is exactly the kind of stuff that I didn't want to put up with, which is why I've always stuck to my petroleum-based enamels and lacquers, and NOW the BLINDEY-FLUKING GOVERNMENTAL/ENVIRONMENTAL "people" want to take them off the market, entirely. Soon, we'll be using paints, their respective primers and thinners, and adhesives which will be made entirely out of "vegetable-matter" and which won't work, anyway. Of course, in the meantime, the "tree huggers" will get into the act and the "vegetable-matter" products will be banned, too!!!
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,390 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 10:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, prepare yourself for a nervous breakdown...
My experience with Vallejo primers are mostly negative. Only way to sand it (and by sanding it I mean only light sanding) for me was possible if I applied it in several VERY thin layers, leaving each layer to dry before next one. After the final one i left it to dry for 2-3 days. Some people claim that they were able to sand it without problem, but again, my experience is not positive. Since I switched to Mig's One shot primer (aka Stynylrez), I'm the new man ....

Good luck.



I have the same bad experiences with the vallejo primers ... it's more satisfying to close my fingers in the car door than try to sand that primer, I gave it away, now depending on what I do i use Tamiya rattle-can, Mr Surfacer or more often Badger Stynylrez AKA Ammo One Shot Primer AKA Ultimate Modeling Product Primer

For me now the best method to sand Vallejo primer is to don't use it! ...
Petro
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: November 02, 2003
KitMaker: 906 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 11:25 AM UTC
Totally break down your AB and clean it well when done spraying it. As a primer, it sucks, but it will lock up your AB even if you think you cleaned it well.
Stickframe
#362
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California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2013
KitMaker: 1,380 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 11:27 AM UTC
Hi gents,

At the risk of getting myself chased off the forum and having my model builderís club card revoked....(haha) I use Vallejo surface primer on most of the armor and figure work I do and it seems to work fine. It usually goes down fairly smoothly, and I donít usually need to sand it that much - the big caveat here is that by the time it goes on Iíve tried to solve most surface irregularities - seams, gaps, glue debris and so on. I can usually get away with a once or twice over with fine sanding film once itís dry.

For autos, or models I want a mirror like finish, I use tamiya fine surface primer out of the spray can - it always works fine (with Vallejo model air for the base color) - but, I need to spray it outdoors because it smells. Thatís actually the reason I usually use the Vallejo - I live in a townhouse and donít want to make my place, or my neighbors smell bad - or, if Iím painting in bad weather or at night and donít want to go outdoors.

Iíve read lots of debates over this - with each ďsideĒ making strong points - but my conclusion is do what works for you and to each their own - oh - as noted above, clean your air brush when youíre done!

Cheers
Nick
wedgetail53
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 641 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 12:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi gents,

At the risk of getting myself chased off the forum and having my model builderís club card revoked....(haha) I use Vallejo surface primer on most of the armor and figure work I do and it seems to work fine. It usually goes down fairly smoothly, and I donít usually need to sand it that much - the big caveat here is that by the time it goes on Iíve tried to solve most surface irregularities - seams, gaps, glue debris and so on. I can usually get away with a once or twice over with fine sanding film once itís dry.

For autos, or models I want a mirror like finish, I use tamiya fine surface primer out of the spray can - it always works fine (with Vallejo model air for the base color) - but, I need to spray it outdoors because it smells. Thatís actually the reason I usually use the Vallejo - I live in a townhouse and donít want to make my place, or my neighbors smell bad - or, if Iím painting in bad weather or at night and donít want to go outdoors.

Iíve read lots of debates over this - with each ďsideĒ making strong points - but my conclusion is do what works for you and to each their own - oh - as noted above, clean your air brush when youíre done!

Cheers
Nick



G'day fellas

I agree with Nick's comments as noted above. I use a lot of Vallejo surface primer, in fact it's some time since I used Tamiya rattle can, and I have no problems. The only caveat to its use is that I always use Vallejo's own airbrush cleaner and clean the airbrush after every use. It's several weeks since I last stripped down the airbrush and I've had no problems. Like Nick, I take care of any sanding before applying primer.

Regards

Rob
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2019 - 12:22 PM UTC
thanks for the input pro & con. my only post primer sanding would involve any dust pips or heavy sags. the former shouldn't be too much of an arduous task and the latter diminish with practice.

i'll give the other badger & mig undercoats a try. I've ordered one of each from amazon.

thanks again.
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC
well . . . I've given the Badger/ Stynylez gray primer a good test and have to say my airbrush experience has improved a bazillion per cent over the "other" primer.


the paint sprays more evenly, levels as well if not better, doesn't clog, drip, run, or sag, as the previous.


I like its color so I can see what has been painted and how the paint is covering.


I anticipate that to offer some challenge with lighter topcoats, so I have ordered the white primer with the intention of mixing the two to net a lighter primer when/ if the situation arises.


thanks again for the recommendation for this primer.


I also have the MIG primer in white but have yet to give it a try.
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 02:18 PM UTC
well Ö. the MIG primer went into the bin. I tried it three separate times with the same result. it was landing on the model as if it was leopard spots. it almost looked like I was spraying it onto an oily surface and rather than spread & level, it would congeal and separate.
same preparation & spray technique. the only thing I could think to do was lower the air pressure. I was using about 22# if the gauge has accuracy. and I disliked the flip top opener: it was getting gummed up and dripping right from the start.

needing all the encouragement I can muster, I didn't feel comfortable with MIG. I did however, order two more bottles of the badger primer (grey & white).
ctkwok
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Alabama, United States
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 114 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 02:22 PM UTC
That goes for his paints too, beads up spraying straight or thinned. Not your fault.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,390 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 07:45 PM UTC
What Ammo Mig primer you brought?...because the One Shot primer should be the badger rebranded for Mig

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/932-one-shot-primer-white.html

Like also the UMP Ultimate Modeling Product same story,badger primer in different bottle

https://www.umpretail.com/products/ultimate-primer-120ml-grey
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 08:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That goes for his paints too, beads up spraying straight or thinned. Not your fault.



"beads up' - perfect description. thanks for the affirmation.

I understand discarding paint (2 Vallejo primers almost full + 1 Mig) is wa$teful, but when you're learning, all the encouragement you can get helps build confidence!

trying to practice daily at least 1/2 hour and it is paying off.

all help appreciated.
jon_a_its
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,270 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 11:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What Ammo Mig primer you brought?...because the One Shot primer should be the badger rebranded for Mig

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/932-one-shot-primer-white.html

Like also the UMP Ultimate Modeling Product same story,badger primer in different bottle

https://www.umpretail.com/products/ultimate-primer-120ml-grey




You can spray VJ POLYURETHANE primer, except, thin coats, use only their thinners & cleaners for cleaning...

EXCEPT: You can't work/rework/sand it, If you put in on too thick, it will peel like candy wrappers.

I've switched to Auto primer for aluminum barrels, otherwise StyNylRez (Styrene/Nylon/Resin btw)

Badgers' Stynylrez available in loads of colours, btw, black/sand thinnest, to grey & white thickest.

Mig's One shot primer, aka Stynylrez/UMP etc... all the same.
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 12:21 AM UTC
I found this helpful: http://www.badgerairbrush.com/Stynylrez.asp

amazon is getting 10+$ for 2 oz w/shipping.
GulfWarrior
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Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 578 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 01:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text


THIS is exactly the kind of stuff that I didn't want to put up with, which is why I've always stuck to my petroleum-based enamels and lacquers, and NOW the BLINDEY-FLUKING GOVERNMENTAL/ENVIRONMENTAL "people" want to take them off the market, entirely. Soon, we'll be using paints, their respective primers and thinners, and adhesives which will be made entirely out of "vegetable-matter" and which won't work, anyway. Of course, in the meantime, the "tree huggers" will get into the act and the "vegetable-matter" products will be banned, too!!!




This is exactly why I wish we had a Like button in these forums! You're a funny guy Dennis!!

Normally, I'm a Rustoleum (rattle can) kinda guy when it comes to my primer. It's always given me great results. This time though I'm about to paint the dozer blade assembly on my Takom M9 ACE. For this the base color is going to be Vallejo Model Air Steel so I'm going to try their gloss black primer. This will be my first time using it so we'll see how it goes. It's a good thing it's only a small bottle so I won't feel so bad if it's crap and I chuck it! If It's good then I'll be using it on the missiles on my SA-4 Ganef kit.

I'll see if I can post a pic or two Sunday or Monday.


taylorrl
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 31, 2019
KitMaker: 32 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 05:58 AM UTC
I also had problems with the Vallejo primers. They did not adhere well to metal barrels or PE and tended to flake off with handling. After a recommendation from a friend, I switched to Krylon ColorMaster flat black in the big rattle can from the local hardware store. It sounds crazy, but it works. It is cheap, $7 to $8 USD and readily available in hardware stores. It is an enamel and must be sprayed outside. It looks terrible when you spray and you think that you've just ruined your model; but, it levels out and looks great when dry. It leaves a tough, thin surface. I let it dry at least 24 hours before touching up any seams or blemishes that I've missed. It sticks to the metal parts and can be sanded. I'm getting about 10 models per can. I've had no problems applying Tamiya and Vallejo over it.

Rick
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 06:15 AM UTC
are you guys decanting & airbrushing the Rustoleum & Krylon or going full monte spray bomb?
taylorrl
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 06:22 AM UTC
I am spraying the Krylon straight from the big rattle can. I still have some of the Vallejo black primer and will use it in my airbrush to get into any really tight spots that I missed with the rattle can. I know, it sounds crazy; but, it works great!

Rick
GulfWarrior
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Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 06:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

are you guys decanting & airbrushing the Rustoleum & Krylon or going full monte spray bomb?



Full monte spray bomb here!



RLlockie
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United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 06:39 PM UTC
I know people who report that the Vallejo primer is unsandable but Iíve never had any problem with sanding it. And when it comes to painting particularly, Iím no kind of veteran sprayer, as Iím more of a builder than a painter (and more of a researcher than a builder).
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 09:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ö when it comes to painting particularly, Iím no kind of veteran sprayer, as Iím more of a builder than a painter (and more of a researcher than a builder).




noble endeavors all
southpier
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 11, 2009
KitMaker: 286 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 09:07 PM UTC
interesting observation: spraying Badger Stynylrez white over Pit Road green plastic on (2) occasions in the past few days, has begun the beading process. the plastic had been washed a couple of years ago when the kit was started, and again prior to painting (50% isopropyl alcohol 91% & distilled water).


I stopped spraying, let it dry for a couple of hours while I went for a bike ride, and then finished the job with no problems.


Q: could some plastics just be more resistant to accepting paint?
AgentG
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Nevada, United States
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,077 posts
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Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 11:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


THIS is exactly the kind of stuff that I didn't want to put up with, which is why I've always stuck to my petroleum-based enamels and lacquers, and NOW the BLINDEY-FLUKING GOVERNMENTAL/ENVIRONMENTAL "people" want to take them off the market, entirely. Soon, we'll be using paints, their respective primers and thinners, and adhesives which will be made entirely out of "vegetable-matter" and which won't work, anyway. Of course, in the meantime, the "tree huggers" will get into the act and the "vegetable-matter" products will be banned, too!!!




This is exactly why I wish we had a Like button in these forums! You're a funny guy Dennis!!

Normally, I'm a Rustoleum (rattle can) kinda guy when it comes to my primer. It's always given me great results. This time though I'm about to paint the dozer blade assembly on my Takom M9 ACE. For this the base color is going to be Vallejo Model Air Steel so I'm going to try their gloss black primer. This will be my first time using it so we'll see how it goes. It's a good thing it's only a small bottle so I won't feel so bad if it's crap and I chuck it! If It's good then I'll be using it on the missiles on my SA-4 Ganef kit.

I'll see if I can post a pic or two Sunday or Monday.





Rustoleum "Camouflage" colors. Great primer, goes on well straight from the can.

G