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Berlin Brigade Mk10 Chieftain, Takom OOB.
Johnnych01
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 04:57 AM UTC
Looks like it's all coming together nicely Jim. On the weathering and painting you mentioned. Remember the Berlin Bgde Chieftains were in the public view and on display a bit like a propaganda tool for the time as well as being fully operational and bombed up all the time. As with most British kit, unless it's out on exercise it's usually kept cleaned to within an inch of its life... Especially being on show in Berlin so weathering & dirt etc would be at a minimum.

The pics that Max put on here I would say show the Chieftains either prepped for exercise or practice deployment drills. John
iwatajim
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 07:12 AM UTC
Thanks John. I will be keeping the weathering to an absolute minimum. I have the old abrams all preshaded as well so will practice anything on that first. Hoping to get the white on and masked in the very near future...then the grey...then the brown! Still donít know what colour to use for the engine deck. Have decided to go with black for the running gear though.

Thanks again, Jim.
Johnnych01
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 08:22 AM UTC
To be honest Jim I don't think you will be wrong doing either green or brown. There is nothing to say for definite that Mk of Berlin chieftain didn't have a green rear deck at some point so I think historically you will be ok.
iwatajim
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 09:11 AM UTC
You know Iím glad you say that John, as I kinda like the contrast of the green with the camo, so there is another decision made. Black running gear and green engine deck, although I still like the idea of green Running gear, but any photos of mk10s I have seen would suggest black, but that could just be a trick of the light in the photos. However, black it will be, for now...

Thanks again John, Jim.
UpperCanadian
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 09:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You know Iím glad you say that John, as I kinda like the contrast of the green with the camo, so there is another decision made. Black running gear and green engine deck, although I still like the idea of green Running gear, but any photos of mk10s I have seen would suggest black, but that could just be a trick of the light in the photos. However, black it will be, for now...

Thanks again John, Jim.



Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is the pre-shading done to supplement the pin-wash?
iwatajim
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 09:32 AM UTC
There ainít no stupid questions Dan. Usually I use the preshade when I am doing a single colour finish, as camo can obliterate the effect without careful airbrushing. As you say, the preshade can be supplementary to pin washing. The preshade can create shadows in larger areas where washes would be too sloppy. It is just another technique in this hobby of ours which can be used to enhance the finish. It is also a great workout for your airbrushing skills!

Iím sure others have other reasonings for preshading, or not preshading, but thatís my two cents. Now, as for the black and white technique, thatís taking preshading to extremes...

Cheers, Jim.
kinmanb
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 01:35 PM UTC
Question on these tanks- were they drawn from existing units with the normal BOAR Camo pattern (green and black) and then this scheme was applied over that, or were they straight from the factory with a base color (green?) then had the pattern applied in Berlin?

Those tanks stayed in Berlin and never left for training elsewhere?

TIA
Bret
iwatajim
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 - 11:26 PM UTC
Hi Bret,
Iím going to let people with much more knowledge than me reply to your questions if they are looking in.

I had purchased the ammo paints suggested in the instructions for this kit and have been using the white, but Iím not enjoying it. I wanted to try using water based non smelly paint for once but find the compromise just too much. So I switched back over to Tamiya and it was like slipping on my comfy slippers after wearing wellies all day!

So, does anyone have suggestions for tamiya colour matches for the blue grey and the medium brown of the camo for this? I will do a spray out on the practice piece and experiment with the colours I have but any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks, Jim.
Johnnych01
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Posted: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 - 05:25 AM UTC
Bret, the Berlin Bgde vehicles by and large stayed in Berlin. I only saw them on Hohne ranges on the annual gun camps if we were there at the same time. I would presume that they may of used Soltau Try area for exercises but I never saw them there. Others may of. However, as the crews rotated through from their parent unit, all exercises may of happened in BAOR prior to the duty tour starting as they would of been using the same type of vehicle, just different camo's.

The vehicles stayed in Berlin and didn't get swapped over when Sqn personnel rotated through for their tours in Berlin from their respective Regiments. The crews would be from Regiments stationed in BAOR who would supply a Sqn at a time that get rotated through (remember, back then a tank regiments tour in BAOR was 5 years). So they stayed in the disruptive cam pattern. At some point they may of begun life in green and black, but if they ever got sent to Berlin as a vehicle replacement for one that had to go for a base overhaul, then they got the new cam and the old Berlin vehicle once it had been overhauled would go to another unit in green and black or to a depot.
All vehicle movement was monitored and strictly controlled via a timed secure route on the Autobahn or the same on the rail network, with absolutely no deviations allowed...
iwatajim
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 05:20 AM UTC
Thanks for the info John.

Ok, so I have done a quick and loose spray out with the ammo colours. Grey blue, which I sprayed as is then added some white and highlighted. Medium brown which I highlighted by adding a few drops of khaki. The highlights are not really noticeable in the photos, but what do we think of these basic colours?

Oh, and if you ever wondered what an Abrams would look like with urban/disruptive camo...







Panzer_Modeler
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 05:53 AM UTC
That looks Great! Nice colors!
Merki4
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 07:50 AM UTC
Nice job, I did the same on my old Tamiya kit of the Mk5, it was really fun, I love that tank.
Colors look nice
Lucio
Johnnych01
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 09:54 AM UTC
That's a great job on the pattern Jim, looks spot on, and nice crisp lines with minimal bleeding. Well done.
And I for one really like that finish on the Abrams, that could be a future What if project. .. food for thought
iwatajim
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 10:07 AM UTC
Thanks Ezra, Lucio and John. I must say I was too hasty to dismiss the ammo paints, and I duly apologise to Master Jimenez. The grey and brown went down rather nicely with some patience and care. And due to how you have to use these paints bleeding is kept to a minimum. I have since sprayed some Tamiya Red Brown and Nato Brown, but prefer the ammo medium brown. So thatís colours decided. Now for the serious masking, I spent all of two minutes preparing the abrams, my favourite bit is the sawtooth at the front fender from the torn off bit of tape!

I know what you mean about the abrams suiting this camo. Iíve seen it on the Challenger 2 but I would love to try it on the new Megatron Challenger 2 kit from RFM.

Thanks again guys, Jim.

kinmanb
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 10:20 AM UTC
Looks nice, what is the trick with the ammo paint?,I have that set but have never used the paint.
kinmanb
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 10:22 AM UTC
Thank you- I kind of figured that, I ask because of the discussion on the back deck color. I would think then it was left in the Camo green because of the maintenance aspect as well as coverage by the turret?
iwatajim
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 10:28 AM UTC
Thanks Bret. I thinned the paint approximately one third thinner to two thirds paint, 20psi, then build the coverage up slowly drying between layers. Too much paint and you get a splotchy finish. I checked out this YouTube tutorial by the man himself which was invaluable;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyte6l1Gokw&feature=share

Thanks again, Jim.
iwatajim
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 10:37 AM UTC
Yeah that is my thinking too, but once again maybe others here have more of an insight. Iím going to give the Nato Green in the set you mention a shot and see. And I am very tempted to do one sides running gear in black and the other in green...
metalhead85
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 12:21 PM UTC
Hey Jim
Awesome paint job on that M1 ! I did a Berlin Brigade Chieftain Mk10 with the old Tamiya kit with the Accurate Armor conversion set several years ago (I thought it came out great if I don't say so myself lol !)It was alot of fun painting it, I did experiment on a few pieces of scrap plastic before I got the colors close to my references. I used alot of tape to mask it but just took my time. I used the Tankograd book....still one of my favorite models. Yours looks excellent so far can't wait to see it finished.

Rich
iwatajim
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 11:51 PM UTC
Thanks Rich,

Iím really pleased with the colours in the ammo set, saves a whole lot of time. I had always been tempted with the accurate armour conversion, but never got round to it. However this golden age of scale modelling is fulfilling so many of our kit hankerings. Not armour, but Iíve just purchased a very detailed and ďaccurateĒ 1/72 kit of the Star Wars B-wing fighter by Bandai, which has just been released through revell here in the uk. My favourite star fighter ever!

Would be great to see your version of the Chieftain Rich.

Cheers,Jim.
metalhead85
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Posted: Friday, July 17, 2020 - 04:20 AM UTC
Yes you are 100% correct, we have so many modern vehicles to choose from, and great subject matter especially British and French stuff. ( I recently bought the Hobby Boss Olifant Mk1 B).
The colors I used for my Chieftain were Tamiya and they were very close to the ones in your pic of the M1,maybe a bit darker. I'll put some photos up when I get the chance.
Johnnych01
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Posted: Friday, July 17, 2020 - 04:27 AM UTC
I'm still seriously thinking about getting an M1 and Bradley and doing them with that cam version... And doing a small urban dio .....

Damn you Jim for showing me that picture lol !!!!
iwatajim
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Posted: Friday, July 17, 2020 - 07:54 AM UTC
It would be interesting to know what Tamiya colours you used Rich, if you can remember?

That sounds like an interesting project John! If you have any old models lying around have a shot at the scheme...

Just found a couple of places lacking enough white for the first layer of masking, so out with my least favourite colour to airbrush again!
Panzer_Modeler
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Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2020 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know what you mean about the abrams suiting this camo. Iíve seen it on the Challenger 2 but I would love to try it on the new Megatron Challenger 2 kit from RFM.

Id love to see you do it on that Chally!
kinmanb
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Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2020 - 03:35 AM UTC
I am sure the US Army played around with urban camouflage, but since the dominant idea was to NOT fight in the cities, the units in Berlin would have been the only one to get it. I think they defaulted to single dark green and left it at that. I am not sure the longevity of the Berlin units hinged on Camo pattern of the tanks.