login   |    register
Constructive Feedback
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
Berlin Brigade Mk10 Chieftain, Takom OOB.
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2020 - 05:20 AM UTC
Following on from Bret: there was no real plan for the Berlin Bgde or NATO forces in Berlin to survive long or play any significant role. Once a unit went to Berlin they weren't really included in any real battle plan. Soviet battle plan would of been the hard push along multiple fronts through as it was then WGermany to the coast and ignore Berlin by and large and mop it up afterwards.
Our real purpose was to do a slow fighting withdrawal back towards the coast to delay them as long as possible to allow the main UK forces to mobilise and for Americans to launch REFORGER.
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 03:30 AM UTC
Well, I have spent a good long while masking off the white parts of this camo. I decided to use a pattern inspired by several sources and builds I have seen of this scheme. I cannot believe how difficult this masking job was compared to the abrams! I tried to do it all just with tape and masking solution, then I remembered blue-tac was a useful agent for those awkward nooks and crannies.

So I have shot the grey, ammo grey blue, which I got a solid coat with then highlighted with the same colour lightened with some ammo light grey and thinned more. The highlights are quite subtle and donít show up too well in the photos and are not to everyoneís taste but I like the process. I have included a shot of the spotlight to show the nice crisp transition you get with this paint.

Here you go;





Panzer_Modeler
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Joined: May 19, 2020
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 202 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 05:20 AM UTC
Sweet! looking good!
Merki4
Visit this Community
Modena, Italy
Joined: March 28, 2009
KitMaker: 77 posts
Armorama: 76 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 08:20 PM UTC
look nice
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 09:31 PM UTC
Coming along very nicely Jim, it's looking great.
Looking at yours now reminds me that I forgot to put the etch wipers on the commanders cupola episcopes and also the straps I was going to make out of tin foil for the thermal sleeve straps on my Challenger... Damn lol, oh well.... To late now.

I think I will have to start writing post it notes with things to do on !!
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 12:03 AM UTC
Thanks guys!

You know, I wish I had left those strap ends off the barrel until after the masking, I am constantly bumping them and have just knocked one off. This has been quite an epic task with the masking, I knew it wouldnít be easy but.. as always with these jobs by the time Iím finished I will know all the wee tricks and will want to go back and start again!

Cheers, J.
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 06:50 AM UTC
Ok, so ready for the brown. Will be going with the medium brown from ammo, which I will spray a fairly solid coat of then highlight with the same colour mixed with some khaki. I decided to leave the green on the engine deck to last as there are a lot of small photo etch handles that I didnít want to risk with masking.

After all this I really hope what is under all that tape and blu-tac is worth it!

Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 09:11 AM UTC
Fingers are crossed lol.....
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 02:13 AM UTC
Thanks John. The brown is on! I have highlighted but once again the effect is almost negligible. I went much lighters with the mix bit didnít like the effect so more of a solid colour after all. Couldnít wait to find out what it was like so the turret is unmasked before painting the barrel and the front third of the hull. I had an issue with the masking solution I used being very thin and seeping under the tape, and it is now a real pain to get off the Matt finish but not a disaster. A couple of tiny flaws but Iím fairly pleased with the results so far.

So green on the engine deck is next.









Panzer_Modeler
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Joined: May 19, 2020
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 202 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 02:37 AM UTC
Wow that's starting to look very Good! It looks like you only had very minor bleeding!
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 02:46 AM UTC
Thats looking very very good so far Jim. I dont think the very minor seeping should be an issue .. I would go at it with a very fine brush and a steady hand and correct it that way. Great stuff.
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 07:42 AM UTC
Thanks again guys. I got stuck in and put the green on. Ammo nato green highlighted with same colour mixed with some zinc chromate yellow. Looks quite dark in pics but brighter in real life. Got cleaning up still to do and lost the photo etch tie downs on either side while taking off the tape. Found the two for the port side but the other is lost to the ether! Onto the running gear next, then the thermal sleeve on the barrel.

















Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 09:01 AM UTC
Very very nice Jim, it's looking tip top. One thing I would say, when you come to weathering it, turret, hull front and sides will be fine with a very light weathering...
But the engine decks.. the Chieftains engine decks were probably the most filthy, oily, crap accumulating places on the face of the earth.
Even when we scrubbed and high pressure washed them they would still be filthy lol...
Chieftain packs and gearbox's would blow on a regular basis and were not happy unless they were leaking something lol.
A good dark wash on the decks will not go amiss.
Also, the resilient rail for traverse safety on the rear decks. The whole rubber sections would normally be black, I have seen some images of black or painting as per the cam... The bit that goes across the T piece however would probably be in original black if you leave the decks green. Just a thought though. It's your baby.
Panzer_Modeler
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Joined: May 19, 2020
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 202 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 09:08 AM UTC
Wow! I hope mine comes out nearly as that!
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 10:10 AM UTC
Thanks John and Ezra.

I will be going for a light weathering overall for sure. Great info on the engine deck and the rubber strips too John. I will certainly make sure it is well oiled! And Iím sure I read somewhere else about those rails on the engine deck not holding paint so will be doing them in black too, was just easy to mask for the green and make it look pretty!

A question about the running gear when it is black, do you reckon that the black would have been painted on the hull/suspension too, or just on the wheels? The hull isnít going to be seen really but would like to be accurate with it. And still tempted with one side green and one black!

Thanks again, Jim.
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:00 AM UTC
What you read was correct, they wouldn't take paint very well at all. It would begin to flake very quickly and would rub off in no time if any paint ever found its way onto them.
Lower hull and suspension would of been standard green, no question.
The plates would rarely ever come off in real time.
We only ever took ours off other than for maint, if we were out on exercise over a very bad winter and if it was extremely muddy clay ground on exercise. And even that was rare.
UpperCanadian
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: June 28, 2020
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 12:45 PM UTC
Coming along very nicley.

I also like the Berlin Brigade M1 Abrams in the background too!
metalhead85
#519
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: March 24, 2006
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 163 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 01:25 PM UTC
Jim that camo job really looks great! Sorry I have not responded to answer your questions about what Tamiya colors I used, but I used German grey lightened with white if I recall correctly, and I think I used Tamiya dark earth and added some black to darken it. The white I started off with light grey and lightened it til I came close to white. I did spray a lighter version of each color in the center of each square to give the model more depth. I also painted the road wheels black and used the brown color for the engine deck. Thats what it looked like in the Tankograd book....I've tried numerous times to upload photos in my post but don't know what I'm doing wrong. I might just try to upload them into a feature as I did with another model of mine a while ago.Again great job so far on the model !

Rich
kinmanb
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: March 19, 2013
KitMaker: 51 posts
Armorama: 48 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 02:16 PM UTC
Very nice result.
AKirchhoff
Visit this Community
Germany
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 302 posts
Armorama: 299 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:04 PM UTC
Hi!
Here is some more info on Berlin (however I canīt hold back to advertise my Tankograd book on this subject which is available again after having been reprinted).

The Chieftains trained in the streets of Berlin where they did patrols, also they used "Ruhleben Fighting City" a lot.

You can see a couple of pictures here:
https://military-database.de/1990-ruhleben-fighter-city/

Also frequently, they used the Bergen Hohne ranges for life firing and the SLTA "Red Areas" for other exercise. I visited them even at Rheinsehlen Camp (SLTA) or on a firing range at Bergen Hohne. They were transported there mainly by military train being covered by large tarpaulins as I ws told.

Sometimes, mostly the infantry unit, overpainted their white patches with NATO green for exercised in West Germany. There was an exercise picture in the www some time ago, I saved it but canīt find it back in the net to link here.

The number of armoured vehicles in Berlin was fixed at some point. That means, when vehicles went out of Berlin for exercises, other vehicles had to be brought in. During one of my frequent visits to Smuts Bks there were a platoon of green/black painted Scimetars lined up. These were brought in with their crews to subsitute for vehicles exercising at SLTA.

John, I respect your knowledge, as you were serving with BAOR a long time, but my info was that every new unit comming to Berlin in rotation brought their own vehicles and painted these. Myself, I saw a half-painted FV434 (hull ready in Berlin scheme, running gear mixed, crane jib and some upper areas still in green/black. On the otehr hand, during the deployment of D Sqn 14/20 KH they had Chieftain Mk10 in Berlin and Challenger 1 Mk3 in their remaining 3 Sqns at MŁnster. This was at the very end of the Berlin deployment of BAOR. So maybe, we are both correct, and it depends on the time frame if vehicles remained or not.

Anyway, it was a really interestimg time for me with the british Berlin forces.

Refering to the topic again, very well done camouflage scheme here, really carefully spayed and masked! Beautiful!

Andreas

Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:32 PM UTC
Andreas, hi again, and indeed we both may be correct on this one and as they say, sometimes 2 heads are better than one.

I was basing my info on the 14/20 KH as they they actually took most of our Chieftain Mk10s when they rerolled from UK to as was then W Germany (in about very late 87 into 88) while we were in Sennelager. Their B Sqn was the last to equip with Mk10s which they had from my old Sqn, C Sqn the Blues and Royals.
They had already taken over as the Berlin Bgde Sqn then.
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:33 PM UTC
Thanks everyone for the kind comments, much appreciated. And that is some great info Andreas and some excellent photos I hadnít seen before.

Richard, thanks for the paint info, I use imgur to host my photos and post a link in my threads putting at the end, no spaces, which works for me. I used to use photobucket but then they started exhorting everyone!

Edit, canít put the prefix or suffix in the thread without the software thinking there is a picture!

Thanks again all
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 452 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:44 PM UTC
They are some cracking images of Berlin Chieftains. Also Jim, you can see that all the sections of resilient rail on at least one wagon were all black.
Thanks for sharing those Andreas.
marcb
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,212 posts
Armorama: 1,194 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2020 - 06:14 AM UTC
That looks great.
Best rendition of this camo, I've ever seen.
iwatajim
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: December 15, 2008
KitMaker: 216 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2020 - 08:15 AM UTC
Thanks very much Marc! It was a labour of love For sure with all that intricate masking! Your appreciation is very welcome.

Yeah John, they are great shots of the resilient strips. And going from those shots the running gear looks black too. I think from your testimony and mounting evidence I really should do them black. And the guide teeth look nice and shiny/polished in that last shot. Great inspiration for weathering too, keep it simple...

Once again Andreas, thank you so much for those shots. And best of luck with the reprint of the book, I wish I had had it at the start of this.